Did you watch Panorama last night?

PamelaJ1 If you find out do post it on GN. I am reading his book, and if it wasn't on my Kindle I would have thrown it at the wall several times and I still have chapters to go.

I am fully with him on his concerns about what UPF can do to our bodies and biome, but do not agree that it is anywhere near as addictive as he suggests.

Over the years as UPF s have developed there have always been articles, vox pops, interviews with people, even conversations with friends and family, where people have said that modern (industrial) food doesn't taste as nice as the same food used to and that they have stopped eating certain foods because they no longer enjoy them - and I am among them.

Like all recent converts, he thinks his research is the answer to all our obesity problems - and it isn't, it is just another piece in the jigsaw.

Mollygo

May I ask what equipment is needed to make bread and oat milk?

I’m surprised you don’t know.
Bread is time and energy -short supply if you’re a teacher, and for many other parents too. Of course my grandmother mother, and mother used to do it all the time (not relevant to today).

Oat milk -I don’t know how you make it, and since I don’t, I used Google. It told me all about what to do and how to avoid sliminess, but since we drink milk, it’s not a problem for us.
Must be a problem for many though, looking at all the claims for which tastes best and looking at all the varieties in the supermarket, but then we’re back to UPF. .

Your grandmother mother and mother likely had to wash clothing without a modern wash system, wash dishes by hand, light fires (no central heat), walk v drive, etc. We all have 24 hrs in a day.

Bread making, I do daily during meal making/ dishwashing/ cleanup takes 5 minutes of work time and 1 hour start to finish. Alternatively, I can quit after the 5 minutes and refrigerate until baking.

It's false thought to think people have no time/ are busier than in past generations, in my opinion. Here we work as hard as ever, just differently.

I have to say that - other than Alpine Fries cooked in an air fryer (you can get them from a well known Aberdeen butcher and frozen food supplier, and they are delicious) - there is no comparison between oven chips and those cooked in oil, or even better, dare I say it, in lard.

I've just heard that prisoners have been complaining about being served unhealthy food, with particular reference to oven chips, and whilst I can't argue with the sentiment I wonder at the wisdom of having deep fat fryers in prison kitchens. Maybe I've watched too many episodes of Wentworth and the like, though

Norah

Mollygo

May I ask what equipment is needed to make bread and oat milk?

I’m surprised you don’t know.
Bread is time and energy -short supply if you’re a teacher, and for many other parents too. Of course my grandmother mother, and mother used to do it all the time (not relevant to today).

Oat milk -I don’t know how you make it, and since I don’t, I used Google. It told me all about what to do and how to avoid sliminess, but since we drink milk, it’s not a problem for us.
Must be a problem for many though, looking at all the claims for which tastes best and looking at all the varieties in the supermarket, but then we’re back to UPF. .

Your grandmother mother and mother likely had to wash clothing without a modern wash system, wash dishes by hand, light fires (no central heat), walk v drive, etc. We all have 24 hrs in a day.

Bread making, I do daily during meal making/ dishwashing/ cleanup takes 5 minutes of work time and 1 hour start to finish. Alternatively, I can quit after the 5 minutes and refrigerate until baking.

It's false thought to think people have no time/ are busier than in past generations, in my opinion. Here we work as hard as ever, just differently.

With all due respect Norah, I’m sure you’ve said on other threads that you’ve not worked outside the home since you were married?
I’ve got time too to make my own bread and cook more healthily now I’m retired because there’s more time available to me to do it, but when I was working full time, commuting, and managing the rest of my life, house, kids schooling, garden etc etc. there was no way, something has to give. We shouldn’t be condemning busy people for not making healthy choices, we should be making healthy choices cheaper and more accessible than rubbish food.

No ones condemning busy people for not making healthy choices. It is perfectly possible to be a busy person and make healthy choices.

As a busy professional person commuting to work I reckoned I could put a casserole together and in the oven in 10 minutes before I went to work. When i got home, one family sized portion went into the freezer and the other was eaten that night. Far less faff than endlessly heating stuff in a microwave one portion at a time.

I have always found cooking from scratch took less time and was far less hassle than the alternative. Today I took casserole portion out of the freezer, and put it in the microwave, put the veg in a saucepan and read the paper while it cooked. Freezer to table in 20 minutes, plus paper read.

Casdon

Norah

Mollygo

May I ask what equipment is needed to make bread and oat milk?

I’m surprised you don’t know.
Bread is time and energy -short supply if you’re a teacher, and for many other parents too. Of course my grandmother mother, and mother used to do it all the time (not relevant to today).

Oat milk -I don’t know how you make it, and since I don’t, I used Google. It told me all about what to do and how to avoid sliminess, but since we drink milk, it’s not a problem for us.
Must be a problem for many though, looking at all the claims for which tastes best and looking at all the varieties in the supermarket, but then we’re back to UPF. .

Your grandmother mother and mother likely had to wash clothing without a modern wash system, wash dishes by hand, light fires (no central heat), walk v drive, etc. We all have 24 hrs in a day.

Bread making, I do daily during meal making/ dishwashing/ cleanup takes 5 minutes of work time and 1 hour start to finish. Alternatively, I can quit after the 5 minutes and refrigerate until baking.

It's false thought to think people have no time/ are busier than in past generations, in my opinion. Here we work as hard as ever, just differently.

With all due respect Norah, I’m sure you’ve said on other threads that you’ve not worked outside the home since you were married?
I’ve got time too to make my own bread and cook more healthily now I’m retired because there’s more time available to me to do it, but when I was working full time, commuting, and managing the rest of my life, house, kids schooling, garden etc etc. there was no way, something has to give. We shouldn’t be condemning busy people for not making healthy choices, we should be making healthy choices cheaper and more accessible than rubbish food.

I rarely feel disrespected. No problem there.

I do, however, feel I worked as hard as any other mother. I just did more things inside my home and for my husband's business - than perhaps people working outside home, whilst raising 4 (spread in ages) children.

I'm not stupid, I know this is an argument I'll never win, cards are stacked against SAHM - but I fail to understand why.

Casdon, We shouldn’t be condemning busy people for not making healthy choices, we should be making healthy choices cheaper and more accessible than rubbish food.

I totally agree ^ I condemned nobody, just pointed to obvious time and money savings anyone, with an oven, could accomplish!

Norah

Casdon

Norah

Mollygo

May I ask what equipment is needed to make bread and oat milk?

I’m surprised you don’t know.
Bread is time and energy -short supply if you’re a teacher, and for many other parents too. Of course my grandmother mother, and mother used to do it all the time (not relevant to today).

Oat milk -I don’t know how you make it, and since I don’t, I used Google. It told me all about what to do and how to avoid sliminess, but since we drink milk, it’s not a problem for us.
Must be a problem for many though, looking at all the claims for which tastes best and looking at all the varieties in the supermarket, but then we’re back to UPF. .

Your grandmother mother and mother likely had to wash clothing without a modern wash system, wash dishes by hand, light fires (no central heat), walk v drive, etc. We all have 24 hrs in a day.

Bread making, I do daily during meal making/ dishwashing/ cleanup takes 5 minutes of work time and 1 hour start to finish. Alternatively, I can quit after the 5 minutes and refrigerate until baking.

It's false thought to think people have no time/ are busier than in past generations, in my opinion. Here we work as hard as ever, just differently.

With all due respect Norah, I’m sure you’ve said on other threads that you’ve not worked outside the home since you were married?
I’ve got time too to make my own bread and cook more healthily now I’m retired because there’s more time available to me to do it, but when I was working full time, commuting, and managing the rest of my life, house, kids schooling, garden etc etc. there was no way, something has to give. We shouldn’t be condemning busy people for not making healthy choices, we should be making healthy choices cheaper and more accessible than rubbish food.

I rarely feel disrespected. No problem there.

I do, however, feel I worked as hard as any other mother. I just did more things inside my home and for my husband's business - than perhaps people working outside home, whilst raising 4 (spread in ages) children.

I'm not stupid, I know this is an argument I'll never win, cards are stacked against SAHM - but I fail to understand why.

Casdon, We shouldn’t be condemning busy people for not making healthy choices, we should be making healthy choices cheaper and more accessible than rubbish food.

I totally agree ^ I condemned nobody, just pointed to obvious time and money savings anyone, with an oven, could accomplish!

I don’t disagree that is feasible for working parents Norah, I just think it’s much tougher to spend time preparing to the extent that you do when you have so much less time available. People prioritise their time, and all the five minutes doing one thing, ten minutes doing another all add up. For many people, the savings financially are less important than the extra hour or whatever each day it would take to do everything themselves, that’s why pre-prepared vegetable for example are so popular.

For many people, the savings financially are less important than the extra hour or whatever each day it would take to do everything themselves, that’s why pre-prepared vegetable for example are so popular.

I think this is a good point and I use a lot of pre-prepared (i.e. peeled and chopped/sliced) veg like carrots, peas etc. for stews, curries and the like. I've read that there is more nutrition in frozen veg than fresh unless eaten straight from the farm.

They are a huge time saver and usually cheaper than fresh.

I should have said frozen pre-prepared veg.

Casdon You are missing the point, I was a working mother, full time and a commute and I still cooked from scratch because it was easier and quicker than faddling around with bought ready meals.

As Norah has said, she is an easy target, because she worked from home. The accusation against me has beeen, of course, that I am smug. I am not, but I am lazy, and one meal, each night, made from scratch , using all the wonders of modern technology, first a pressure cooker, later an oven with a delayed cook start and later on a microwave together with frozen diced stewing meaat or mince, frozen and tinned vegetables and the huge range of herbs and spices available made preparing a meal from scratch a doddle and less hassle than the pre-manufactured alternatives.

M0nica

Casdon You are missing the point, I was a working mother, full time and a commute and I still cooked from scratch because it was easier and quicker than faddling around with bought ready meals.

As Norah has said, she is an easy target, because she worked from home. The accusation against me has beeen, of course, that I am smug. I am not, but I am lazy, and one meal, each night, made from scratch , using all the wonders of modern technology, first a pressure cooker, later an oven with a delayed cook start and later on a microwave together with frozen diced stewing meaat or mince, frozen and tinned vegetables and the huge range of herbs and spices available made preparing a meal from scratch a doddle and less hassle than the pre-manufactured alternatives.

No, I’m not missing the point at all Monica, or criticising anyone who opts to make everything from scratch. The fact that you did it makes it possible, which I have acknowledged - but it doesn’t make it a choice many working people will opt for, because they have other priorities. It’s definitely not quicker and easier to prepare vegetables than it is to put ready prepared ones in the microwave, or peel potatoes and make your own chips than it is to use oven chips, or to whip up a sauce for your chicken fillets than to put a pack with it already done for you in the oven. Your choices are fine, but you have to acknowledge that they take more time than it being pre-done for you, that’s just a fact.

^ For many people, the savings financially are less important than the extra hour or whatever each day it would take to do everything themselves, that’s why pre-prepared vegetable for example are so popular.^

Frozen veg-home prepared or shop bought are a godsend. Every like/dislike catered for by just opening a packet and cooking separate/multiple portions.

For some though, time is in often in shorter supply than money.

If you already rise at 6.30 to use the bathroom before other members need it, have breakfast, walk the dog, then leave for work at 7.30 or to drop the children off at childcare, then a long drive to work, get home around 6.30pm if the traffic isn’t too bad, collect children, prep, serve and eat dinner before starting marking and any preparation/ record keeping you didn’t fit in at the weekend, in between shopping and cleaning, oh and walk the dog (our fault for getting a dog but we were told it was good for ASC children), you might not want to fit in bread making or preparing food etc before you crawl exhausted into bed.

Wonder Woman obviously does all those things and talks dismissively of those who don’t.
Who knows? When I retire fully, I might well become a Wonder Woman myself.

For many people, the savings financially are less important than the extra hour or whatever each day it would take to do everything themselves, that’s why pre-prepared vegetable for example are so popular.

The reverse is an equally good point. Those not in work and SAHM working at home have less money, may perhaps be poor - thus what they spend in time they save in money they do not have!

I'm a SAHM, by choice, we'd no money and were poor. I spend my time making by scratch - not spending money. It's a mindset.

Monica the conversation was about the obesity injection . He was for it and she was against.
She because she wasn’t convinced that ‘it would do no harm’ and felt it was just another short term solution. He felt it would give people a great head start and save the NHS a lot of money.
I felt she had a valid point in regard to long term weight loss- a lot of people lose a lot of weight and then, even after months of following a plan, put it all back on again.

Casdon We are both arguing from the same side of the page. Ready prepared vegetables are not a processed food, they are fresh food, and just as I used pre-diced and minced meat I used pre-prepared, tinned and frozen vegetables. I used every aid mechanical, electrical, and pre-prepared food, available to me.

I did not go for preprepared sauces, because i didn't make them either. My solution was casseroles, meat in a casserole, tins of vegetables, or frozen vegetables, stock cube, spices or herbs poured on top and in the oven it went. The timer was set on the cooker and it came on between 3.00 and 4.00pm and supper was cooked and ready when i arrived home from work. The effect of the cooking mixed all the different foodstuffs around, so no need to stir or mix before cooking either.

The art of laziness is reducing everything to its minimum, querying every step and asking if it is really necessary and then doing absolutely nothing unnecessary: don't make sauces, put the makings in a casserole and let them make themselves.

I have lost 7st since 2017. No short cuts I weight and measure everything I eat and drink and count calories. It's a marathon not a sprint losing weight. I was well over 19st size 32 been just over 12st and size 16 for 2 years now. Still want to loss a stone and bit but I am happy if I lose quarter of a pound ,stay the same or at the most out on 2lb in a week but got it off again. All by cooking from scratch.

Because of pain and my mobility I peel veg and put it into the freezer whole as long as it's not butternut squash and I precook that whole and cut into 3 once soft. no blanching.
Yesterday soup took 10 mins to pop in the saucepan only thing not from the freezer was lentils ,herbs and oxo's. My stew's take the same amount of time.

I use a stick blender in my soup and cut into a stew with kitchen scissors once cooked.

If anyone wants to lose weight and have help and support look at the pears thread on dieting and exercise. No judgements just a lovely bunch that don't give up going for their goal.

Whiff well done. Your story is remarkable. I lost 2 stone nearly 10 years ago and have not put it back on.

Van Tulliken's belief that the addictive qualities of UFOs are the cause of obesity and the reason, people do not loose weight is simplistic in the extreme and palpably untrue. 64% of people over 18 are overweight, which means 36% are not, yet the 36% will be eating UPFs and have managed not to become addicted to them.

It is time someone challenged him on this. PamelaJ1, oh talking about the obesity drug, a pity, it is time someone challenged him on some of the nonsense in the book.

I haven't read Van Tulliken's book but my understanding is that UHP foods have a detrimental effect on the gut biome which is influential in helping us to stay healthy. Also because UHP foods are generally digested quickly they can lead to glucose spikes, which are potentially inflammatory and because they are also low in fibre we feel hungry again more quickly. I think the "addictive"element comes from a sugar rush followed by dip in glucose, so besides causing a predisposition to type 2 diabetes, it can make people eat more. It's quite a complex relationship so this is my layman's stab at explaining it. If 36% of people are not overweight, I think it suggests that they may not eat much in the way of UHPs (certainly I never have and I'm in no way unique). Something is driving the increase in obesity and it is a serious problem for most developed countries so I'm prepared to be open minded.

fwiw, I've been using the Zoe app and have tweaked my diet to include more low GI foods, plant based proteins, less meat and I am trying to avoid UHP foods. My weight has been pretty steady through out my life, just put an stone on during the menopause (which I lost). I've been eating more than I used to, never feel hungry but I've lost 3 kgs, which seems to have gone from my middle so I am less "apple" shaped

It's been estimated that people eat 200-300 more calories a day than 50 years ago - that's what's driving obesity.

growstuff

It's been estimated that people eat 200-300 more calories a day than 50 years ago - that's what's driving obesity.

That and the increased number of drivers. 50 years ago many people didn't own cars and walked a lot more. I know I did. Less activity and more calories leads to obesity.

growstuff

It's been estimated that people eat 200-300 more calories a day than 50 years ago - that's what's driving obesity.

Yes and you can combine that with the increase in car usage, instead of walking, right from starting school.
We have a 15 minute daily run, not always a mile for the younger children, to increase children’s physical activity. Can you imagine having to put that in the curriculum 50 years ago?

I think the activity side is probably more important than the food intake. I can't move around as much as before for health reasons, and I have piled on weight since it happened.

I remember eating a cooked breakfast, a lunch with pudding and an early evening meal (often with starter or pudding) as a child, and this was perfectly normal. We ran around more, and yes - we walked far more than people do now. I was a size 8-10 when I married at 22. I don't eat anywhere near as much now, but as I say, I get very little exercise, and I am nearer an 18.

200-300 calories is a large KitKat - would eating one of those a day really cause widespread obesity on its own?

It’s not just food, lack of movement is definitely a big contributory factor. My generation and my sons’ generation were far more active. There were less cars, no computers and far more green spaces and fields to climb trees, make dens etc. It’s not just UPF that’s driving obesity but it doesn’t help.

Doodledog

I think the activity side is probably more important than the food intake. I can't move around as much as before for health reasons, and I have piled on weight since it happened.

I remember eating a cooked breakfast, a lunch with pudding and an early evening meal (often with starter or pudding) as a child, and this was perfectly normal. We ran around more, and yes - we walked far more than people do now. I was a size 8-10 when I married at 22. I don't eat anywhere near as much now, but as I say, I get very little exercise, and I am nearer an 18.

200-300 calories is a large KitKat - would eating one of those a day really cause widespread obesity on its own?

It could do. It's reckoned you need a calorie surplus of 3,500 beyond energy requirement to gain a pound, so you would gain a pound approximately every two weeks - 26 pounds in a year.

The other thing people do now is drink more - sugary drinks and alcohol.