Did you watch Panorama last night?

Primrose I don’t think there is anyone making money from this research except by people buying books because they are interested in learning more.
Your parents and mine didn’t grow up in a time when UPF were available. Neither did I. Well actually my mum is still alive so she does enjoy some UPF, it’s almost unavoidable, but she mainly eats freshly cooked unprocessed or minimally processed food.
As we do.
I am slim and healthy and eat whatever I like because I’m eating a good balanced diet. My food makes me feel full and gives me the nutrients I need. UPF are designed to make us want more. If I want a bit of UPF I have it but it doesn’t make up a very big proportion of my diet.
It’s when the majority of a persons food intake comes from these manufactured foods that it can lead to Ill health and obesity.
Unfortunately with the cost of living and the lack of time more and more people are resorting to the less healthy option.

You can just go round in circles - very good vegan spreads have "natural" emulsifiers, so I thought oh well might as well go back to butter just not use a lot, but then you find butter has natural emulsifiers too.......(been on a long hunt).

I'm not well enough to cook bread or stuff but usually just have salmon or chicken or other fish plus veg plus bread:

and the rest, well I shall look very closely at labels from now on products: my income level says "Sainsbury's" not above that food shop.

Great thread - learning a lot.

Fortunately my tipple is white wine. that was a relief from the isa.

an interesting difference between when i was young and young people now is attitude or expectations.
we grew up in a world where restraint was the norm.
self-control was an indicator of adult rather than childish behaviour and demands.
now instant gratification in all aspects of life is glorified.
this is a generalisation, of course.
there was a discussion recently on MN about strange sayings and customs of elders.
mention was made of ancient great aunts who thought eating in the street was not to be done.
there was much musing and merriment about this.
some wondered why it was disapproved of.
no one had an answer. some speculated that it might suggest they were poor (!?), as coming from a family where they did not have enough to eat.
no one even considered notions of decorum, or self control, waiting to eat at home at a table.

I didn't watch Panorama but know about the Zoe programme and Dr van Tulleken's experiment.

A few years' ago an American doctor did a similar but 'reverse' experiment - he lost weight eating only MacDonalds, and someone else did the same recently and lost a lot of weight.

The US experiments showed that you can lose weight eating UPF - it all depends on how much you eat. How sustainable such a diet would be is another matter.

I wonder how much van Tulleken ate in calorie terms to gain 7kg in a month.

Primrose Yes but your parents were cooking from scratch and wouldn’t have been eating very much Ultra processed food. That’s the difference.

I’m on the Zoe programme and according to the app rye bread is the best followed by sourdough. Zoe is individualised so that might be just for me.

argymargy

UPF is having a big moment. I listened to the Van Tulleken brothers podcast about it (A Thorough Examination) and it's very interesting. A simple way to avoid it is to avoid buying things with ingredients listed that you would never see, use or cook with.

I did not watch, but I understand.

Indeed, UPF is an 'in thing'.

All one has to do is actually cook, from real ingredients (not packets of stuff). Bread is just flour, water, yeast (activated with a teaspoon of sugar), salt (or not) and a teaspoon of oil - nothing unhealthy there.

People can make most all the items that would be full of UPF, from scratch, cheaper, tastier - without any UPF at all. We do, easily.

I do think that too many of us are always on the look out for a reason to blame anything but ourselves if we are overweight and yet the plethora of coffee shops everywhere, and fast food restaurants, that always have people in them show, as much as anything, that the main cause of overweight for all but the very poorest, where the dynamic is very different, is eating too much.

I grew up in a family that was comfortably off, but we did not eat between meals, biscuits were a luxury, meals were smaller than those we eat now and eating out was a rarity. Water was our usual drink. We would go on holiday and not have a single meal in a restaurant all week, or snack, although we would get a couple of ice creams.

How many people on GN eat between meals? Drink soft drinks, Have a glass or so of wine of an evening. Go to a coffee shop when out and have a coffee, with milk and other extras, some of these coffees are rich in calories and possibly has a cake or biscuit as well?

There are UPFs in almost everything we eat. Salad cream, tomato ketchup, non-dairy spreads, and dairy spreads that are not 100% butter, chutneys, baked beans, yoghourt, probably every single bread product in a supermarket. If you buy bread from anyone other than an artisan baker, you are consuming UPFs

lathyrus you are OK with a lump of cheddar or basic cheese, but beware of cheese spreads, or any processed cheese product.

It is easy enough to avoid UPFs if you avoid the usual suspects, but it is all the products that you assume are UPF free but aren't, that catch you by surprise. Sausages, processed meat and fish products, and as I said before sauces, relishes, even some honey products.

We need also to see things in perspective, having salad cream on your salad, or a spoonful of chutney in a cheese sandwich does not immediately condemn you to suddenly looking like Billy Bunter. Look around when you are out - and you will see lots of people of all age who are not overweight, despite UPFs

People who come up with these ideas or eating plans are just doing it to make money.

My Dad lived to 85 and my Mum to nearly 97. They both ate whatever they fancied in moderate proportions. Their generation were brought up on cheap cuts of meat, dumplings, suet puddings, yorkshire puds, uncut bread etc - all stuff that would fill you up quickly and cheaply. They only ever had full fat milk, butter And never heard of anything low fat! They ate plenty of homegrown veg and salad stuff.

They both had a sweet tooth and on Sunday afternoons my Dad used to make a big tray of toffee to last all week. My Mum loved walnut whips, mars bars and bounty bars.

AGAA4

It's the emulsifiers that are put into food that can be very bad for health. They have been passed as safe by people who have an 'interest' in the companies that make them.
It is surprising how many foods have emulsifier added.

After hearing about emulsifiers being bad I checked the labelling of all the food in my kitchen. Everything was free of them except a pack of Oven Bottom Muffins. I don't fancy them now, but will use them and buy no more. Luckily the multigrain loaf I usually buy is fine.

It's the emulsifiers that are put into food that can be very bad for health. They have been passed as safe by people who have an 'interest' in the companies that make them.
It is surprising how many foods have emulsifier added.

The ZOE podcasts are very interesting. My one complaint of Tim Spector is that the diet that he advocates is very expensive (eg avocados are an occasional treat for me) but one podcast did explain how you can eat well for less. I also applaud the way that he believes that tailor made preventative monitoring of people’s diets is the way forward. It may sound expensive but preventative health care has to be the way forward. I remember someone doing a tv programme where they ate fast food for a few weeks and the effect it had on their body was scary. I missed the Panorama programme so will look forward to watching it so thanks for that.

We, luckily have a small local bakery that only uses natural ingredients. It’s expensive but really fills you up so you don’t have to eat as much to feel full.

I just looked at the label on my shop bought sour dough bread. Looking good. More expensive obvs but worth every penny when you read the list on other breads. That's it, sour dough now.

NotSpaghetti thanks for the cheese stuff. Interesting post about colouring cheese.

So..is my very pale yellow standard hunk of Sainsbugs cheddar coloured? It doesn't say so on the label, just milk.

Also about buying plain yoghurt and adding honey etc.

I buy coconut yoghurt as it's vv delicious and non dairy. It's not clear on the label tho how processed it it. But get lost when it comes to deciding whether "pectin" is good or bad...

I buy most of my food from our wonderful community store. I let their buyer do the research for me.
This way I can be sure that I consume no UPF.
I have now watched Panorama. I don't think any of it was news to me.
www.penicuikstorehouse.org

I only buy the more expensive brands of wholemeal bread but recently, after reading about UPF, I thought to look at the ingredients. What a shock! Various chemicals in it when I had always assumed only flour, water, salt and yeast, as when I make bread at home. Must get all my fingers out and get back to the kneading…

I looked up St Agur cheese on my Zoe app, it's fine. The cheeses that are processed are those like feta, halloumi, cheese spreads. Breads are tricky, a seeded bread is better than most, baguettes are not good news, I'm afraid. We make our own bread with no preservatives, lower salt and added seeds. I now avoid processed meats like ham, bacon and sausages although I'll still have them very occasionally. I think the problems arise when people have UHP foods as a big part of their normal diet and lots of people, especially children, do.

This might be interesting regarding cheese.

www.100daysofrealfood.com/cheese-and-other-dairy-products-are-they-processed/

I sometimes make my own cottage-type cheese - obviously it involves processing - warming and straining (and sometimes adding cream) but it is recommended not to have ULTRA processed foods.
I don't think anyone would count warming milk or boiling an egg.

Also looked up Feta cheese without success, as i do like that.

I looked up cheeses

"A long list of cheeses fall under the category of unprocessed or "all-natural," including Havarti, Swiss, Colby, Gruyere, Manchego and most Cheddars. Additionally, Parmesan, goat cheese, Limburger, Provolone and Gouda are unprocessed cheeses; however, buyers should check the ingredient label of these cheeses before purchase to ensure the cheese has not been mixed with processed foods."

"Most cheddars?" it's clear there is no easy answer, except to check the ingredients, but I do buy cheddar and would like to know what to look out for. I love Manchego, but the price!

also I dont want to give up my bread - what do I look out for?

Mine isn't great NotSpaghetti
I once walked a marathon with a group of vegans who I'd met on a slimming forum, online.
I asked them how they managed to put on weight as vegans.
They laughed out loud!

aveline some bread has the nasties in but lots don’t.
There is processed food and ultra processed read the ingredient list.
Lathyrus Most cheese is processed but, again, not ultra processed.
It’s all on line and the information is easily found.

Grammaretto - lots of vegetarians (and vegans) have pretty shocking diets.

Obviously you don't - but just saying.

My DMiL has recently died aged 98 . She loved cream, an alcoholic drink every evening, tablet was her favourite sweet
She walked everyday, as long as she could, and kept slim.
Her brain was always active and her interest in people and politics never waned. She was reciting poetry the day before she died
The sad thing was that she outlived all her friends and one of her DC (my DH)