Very worried about elderly dad and geriatric hospital ward

I m glad to hear you have your dad home but I hope your mum appreciates all the help we get when elderly are going home from hospital.. 6 weeks free carers, and many useful items to help the ill patient live as comfortable a life as possible
I understand she sounds a very independent strong lady but we all have to take help at some time in our lives and it’s about what’s comfortable and right for your Dad in his last weeks months or whatever of life
The very elderly can go down hill very very fast my own Dad was 92 and still walking around the house and with the help of carers and myself managing , he was putting himself to bed and dressing / washing alone etc Then it was found he had an extremely low blood count which needed more tests , which then reveal terminal cancer and within 3 weeks he had died.
I hope this doesn’t happen with your Dad but don’t blame anybody if it does

I'm glad he's home. It's a lot for your poor Mum to cope with. I hope she can have a bit of a rest now.

So pleased to hear your dad is home. I wish everything wasn’t so flipping complicated. Just when your tired and need every ounce of strength to get by. Wishing you all lots of luck.

I'm so pleased that dad is home from hospital. I honestly think hospitals are awful places to be these days (four days was enough for me - grim). To be dependant on people is bad enough but at least at home there are familar things, smells, noises and people, and especially people. I wish you all well and hope things go as well as can be expected.

Very much appreciate your update drbledu23. Glad your dad is home at last and hopefully your mother can get some comfort and rest being away from the hospital environment. No doubt there are many difficult days ahead. You all will be in my thoughts.

Well my dad was finally discharged home yesterday ... hell getting all the various depts of the care teams to coordinate but eventually have him settled in the living room.

He has been dozing pretty constantly for the last couple of days, my mum still getting him to eat and drink a little - he takes OK to soups and rice puddings and has taken some tea and hot chocolate. Unexpectedly he did open his eyes when the ambulance reached home - think he knew where he was.

My mum just now dealing with the host of carers and support bodies who are descending on the house. She needs to establish exactly who is doing what, when and why for her own sanity, although still convinced that she can do a better job herself!

We don't really know at this point what the expectancy is - days or weeks - but just glad that dad is home. Didn't want to lose him to the hospital.

Another thing to think about re palliative care: each of us just knows about the end of our partners' or family members' lives. Consultants will have experience of literally thousands of lives. Evidence based practice is integral to NHS care. The problem here seems to be the way that treatment plans are communicated between teams and shared with family.

Aveline

There's a nice dining room in each of the wards I attend. Few patients want to eat there despite staff's best efforts. It's the same with the day rooms/lounges. Just because people are old doesn't mean they have anything in common with other patients. Some of the people I visit have an absolute horror of being 'lumped together' with other patients and prefer their own rooms. Others are more sociable or at least willing to try. Everyone is different!

I’d endorse that, the hospitals where I worked had dining rooms, but patients don’t like using them. I think part of the reason is that patients in hospital tend to be sicker than they were in the past, so they have been discharged by the time they are up to sitting out of bed and socialising.

There's a nice dining room in each of the wards I attend. Few patients want to eat there despite staff's best efforts. It's the same with the day rooms/lounges. Just because people are old doesn't mean they have anything in common with other patients. Some of the people I visit have an absolute horror of being 'lumped together' with other patients and prefer their own rooms. Others are more sociable or at least willing to try. Everyone is different!

drbledu23

I didn't expect my post to provoke such a wealth of commentary over experiences within this area, but I have appreciated everyone's views and advice.

Ultimately we can see how treatment of the elderly with life-limiting conditions (or not) is so variable throughout the NHS. The problem lies with how some doctors/consultants view the elderly and the fact that it seems in some cases there is a presumption that they are on the way out anyway so why persevere. Whether that is due to demands placed on the NHS capacity, or down to indifferent treatment. diagnosis and poor nursing care ... all elderly patients should at least be given a chance and not written off as a drain on resources.

'Geriatric' general wards are not the right place for the elderly - so many of them go downhill very fast in those places when they might receive better holistic care elsewhere in the difficult later stages of life. Have witnessed enough in the last week on the ward where my dad is. My dad is due to be discharged to home tomorrow where, God willing, we can look after him with care. He is just fading fast in that wretched place.

I agree about the varying standards of treatment, but I do think the staff struggle to deal with the numbers of patients and the care they need.
There is also the problem of families who simply "dump" their elderly relative and only visit occasionally.
A simple thing I thought might help would be the return of the communal meal, where those mobile enough would eat at a table together. It might help those not eating and would break the isolation.

I was asked at the hospital to make the decision to give CPR to my Mum when she had a massive heart attack aged 90
The doctor very kindly explained to be that it could be very painful and brutal and she had a very poor life ahead through Alzheimer’s
I made the decision that would end her life

We have to remember that life cannot go on for ever, we have to accept it ends and sometimes just because you can give longer, doesn’t mean you should

I'm so glad that your dad is coming home, whatever happens its the best place for him and your mother. I nursed my husband at home and I found it difficult and frightening, but looking back I am so glad I did. I nearly had him taken to the hospice but was told he would die in the ambulance, which would have been dreadful. It was also dreadful having him live on for another week, (not for me but for him) but at least I can say that I did everything I could. It is so hard and I feel for you and your mum.

I didn't expect my post to provoke such a wealth of commentary over experiences within this area, but I have appreciated everyone's views and advice.

Ultimately we can see how treatment of the elderly with life-limiting conditions (or not) is so variable throughout the NHS. The problem lies with how some doctors/consultants view the elderly and the fact that it seems in some cases there is a presumption that they are on the way out anyway so why persevere. Whether that is due to demands placed on the NHS capacity, or down to indifferent treatment. diagnosis and poor nursing care ... all elderly patients should at least be given a chance and not written off as a drain on resources.

'Geriatric' general wards are not the right place for the elderly - so many of them go downhill very fast in those places when they might receive better holistic care elsewhere in the difficult later stages of life. Have witnessed enough in the last week on the ward where my dad is. My dad is due to be discharged to home tomorrow where, God willing, we can look after him with care. He is just fading fast in that wretched place.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Post references now withdrawn post.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

My dear Dad had a DNR but a young doctor on night duty overruled it and gave him CPR. It was awful. Cruel. He died the next day. 😑

Caleo

Please listen to Visgirl and Hithere (are you aware how brutal CPR can be?). The Almighty gave you the gift of reason----Use it!

Not always good advice.

Thank you casdon. It’s a difficult one. Nobody wants to go into hospital, but when frightened and in pain it seems the only option.
If she was in a care home, maybe it would be easier to manage with lots of people around. But she lives alone, and needed an ambulance eleven times in the last three years, I’ve managed to be there every time so far 🤞 She wouldn’t cope alone with a bottle of medicine, and no support.

Katyj

Hi yes mum decided that she would rather go into hospital if the pain was as severe as last time, plus she was very frightened. Her GP agreed that liquid morphine alone wouldn’t help the pain much anyway. And if I was away, who would sit with her and administer the morphine ?

Thanks for replying, I can understand her reasoning, and I guessed that’s what you probably meant to say. I hope she stays well for as long as possible.

Please listen to Visgirl and Hithere (are you aware how brutal CPR can be?). The Almighty gave you the gift of reason----Use it!

Hi yes mum decided that she would rather go into hospital if the pain was as severe as last time, plus she was very frightened. Her GP agreed that liquid morphine alone wouldn’t help the pain much anyway. And if I was away, who would sit with her and administer the morphine ?

Katyj

drbledu23 Just a thought. My mum aged 92 has recently been in hospital with a mild heart attack. Her medications have been changed to suit her new conditions, they were done in hospital.
The consultant rang me to say there’s was nothing else they would be able to do for her now. Her condition should be managed at home, he didn’t want to see her back in hospital again. He prescribed morphine to be administered at home in case she had more chest pain.
After much thought and discussion with me and mums GP we have decided we’re going to ignore that advice. An ambulance will be called.

I hope you’ve worded ambiguously and meant that your mum was the person making the decision katyj, not you and her GP. If there’s nothing more the hospital can do for her, she should be able decide if she prefers to die at home or in hospital.

Really? Would you want to put her through an ambulance trip, waits potentially outside the hospital then again inside. Once assessed they may still refuse to admit her. We're all animals really and parts wear out and malfunction. Medics aren't magicians. Sounds like your hospital consultant was actually being kind Katyj.

drbledu23 Just a thought. My mum aged 92 has recently been in hospital with a mild heart attack. Her medications have been changed to suit her new conditions, they were done in hospital.
The consultant rang me to say there’s was nothing else they would be able to do for her now. Her condition should be managed at home, he didn’t want to see her back in hospital again. He prescribed morphine to be administered at home in case she had more chest pain.
After much thought and discussion with me and mums GP we have decided we’re going to ignore that advice. An ambulance will be called.