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Very worried about elderly dad and geriatric hospital ward

(117 Posts)
drbledu23 Sun 16-Jul-23 18:53:06

I'm new to this forum but hoping that you may be able to offer some advice and support. I apologize if this is a lengthy post but bear with me.

Mt 91 year old dad was admitted to hospital a week ago - suspected fractured rib after a fall. After a day in A&E and tests where they discovered that there was no fracture but diagnosed him as having pneumonia, he spent 2 days in acute care and was then transferred to a general ward (which looks to be a general dumping ground for the elderly). He was until 2 days ago on an IV antibiotic drip with nasal oxygen tube. My mother has not left his side for the entire time, checking on his treatment, feeding him and ensuring he has fluids.

As my mum and I have Lasting PoA for my dad's health, I received a call from one of the hospital doctors a week ago asking generally about my dad's general status prior to admittance and confirmed what my mum would already have told them, that in the 10 years since his heat attack he has been absolutely fine, active and regularly checked by the cardiac nursing team - apart from age and expected frailty there has been no change in his general condition. In fact I saw him the day before he was admitted and he walked down the street with me on his wheelie frame. However, the hospital doctors appear to have decided that he is now too weak and that he would be treated palliatively with all the dread connotations that the word brings.... In the intervening days on the ward he was doing reasonably - eating, drinking OK, sitting in the chair and generally conversational - until that is the staff stopped his cardiac medicines (prescribed by hs GP). I can not see that he is being given replacement drugs by hospital and there has been no explanation as to why. Now he is dozing, eating very little and hardly drinking - at least only as much as my mum can get into him. Otherwise he is intermittently alert and his daily BP and other checks remain stable. The hospital are arranging return to home with palliative care from Macmillan and with the most pessimistic prognosis of 'weeks or days' ... I cannot believe that an otherwise stable for this age and condition man is now reduced to this and I am beginning to suspect that something is not right here. The unexplained withdrawal of his meds and the IV antibiotic simultaneously smacks of the hospital sending him on his way (euphemism) for no good reason other than that he is elderly. All we have been told is that he is not responding to treatment and that he no longer needed the antibiotic drip - he is still on oxygen.

Mt mum is very worried and desperate to get him out of there and under her usual excellent care - back on his meds - to at least give him a chance of survival. We have not consented to any withdrawal of treatment or care and are determined to get to the bottom of this indifferent care and hospital, but I am at a loss as to where we can turn to for advice or recourse. The doctors dealing with him (not the original one I spoke to) seem to have abandonded him - and others on the ward which is a generally sorry place to say the least.

Has anyone else been through a situation like this with the NHS and geriatric care? What on earth can we do short of removing him ourselves and getting his GP and the cardiac nursing team on to the case. Very worried and feeling helpless.

Aveline Sun 16-Jul-23 19:36:22

I'm sorry to hear this. Please forgive me but is it possible that the doctors are right? It may be that after blood tests etc they found that the cardiac medicines aren't doing him any good any more.
I'm hoping you can have a good discussion with the doctors asap. Good luck. This is a difficult and sad time for you.

TerriT Sun 16-Jul-23 19:43:14

Phone PALS . Each hospital has a number. I had both my parents go in after falls and it was a death sentence for both quite frankly. Whatever opinions people have about the nhs and care etc, my experience of care for the very elderly is that they don’t. I have many friends whose elderly relatives had the same experience. You most definitely need to realise the wards attitude is more to do with the state of the nhs, staff shortages etc than what’s best for your father. Take him home ASAP is my advice where you can look after him. He will be getting little of that on an nhs geriatric ward from my experience.

Primrose53 Sun 16-Jul-23 19:44:05

Must be a massive worry to you. Most hospitals have a Modern Matron ….. speak to her or your Dad’s consultant asap.

BlueBelle Sun 16-Jul-23 19:46:46

Sorry if I m barking up the wrong tree but I thought they only suggested Macmillon if there was a cancer diagnosis ?

Lomo123 Sun 16-Jul-23 20:00:43

Yes, I'd speak to someone else. I've seen first hand how elderly people are treated in hospitals. Good luck.

Hithere Sun 16-Jul-23 20:17:21

Could there be any other health issues you are unaware of?

Speak to his gp about his current treatment?

Imarocker Sun 16-Jul-23 20:27:11

Ask for an appointment with the consultant or, if you can afford it, find a local gerontologist and ask him to review what is being done. However, in my recent experience, if they are saying he needs palliative care from Macmillan then he is perhaps much worse than you possibly realised. Has he had a stroke or a series of TIAs while he is in the hospital?

62Granny Sun 16-Jul-23 20:29:39

BlueBelle

Sorry if I m barking up the wrong tree but I thought they only suggested Macmillon if there was a cancer diagnosis ?

No Macmillan nurses do see patients who have been deemed as palliative but are not cancer patients,
I worked as clerical support to a team.

drbledu23 Sun 16-Jul-23 20:37:08

Well thank you all for your messages - was beginning to think it was all in my imagination. There are two such wards in that hospital - the other is generally known as the Death Squad!

My mum has been watching everything the staff do - what is or isn't administered and reporting to me on the phone and I have been researching for her. Weird development today in that they are removing the other chap opposite my dad to a side room out of the way - he and my mum have been discussing what is going on in that place and are in agreement. Strange eh?

I am getting onto PALS first thing in the morning and try to get through to dad's GP to see if he can intervene and help.

My dad was perfectly OK the day before he got admitted - just woke up the next day with pain in his back and ribs from the fall 2 days before. Paramedics checked him out thoroughly at the time and said he was perfectly OK. Last cardiac nursing visit pronounced him very well for his age and condition. Yet one stay in that hospital has reduced him to this. Have spoken to three different doctors in the past week but they were generally optimistic apart from stating that the pneumonia had weakened him which is to be expected ... until the last doctor who looked at him (didn't examine) on Saturday and said he had days left. If she had seen him the day before sitting up and feeding himself she might not have been so quick to that opinion. Strange that the meds were withdrawn along with the IV on that day before she cleared off for the weekend.

I am so angry and want to get him home as does my mother who cares for him better than anyone. We have attested to all the doctors who have questioned us as to his general activity, physical state etc - strong constitution for a man of his generation who has got over anything that was thrown at him health-wise - but to no avail.

Hithere Sun 16-Jul-23 20:42:04

Does this hospital have similar complaints as yours?

CocoPops Sun 16-Jul-23 20:44:41

If I were you I'd ask the nurse in charge of the ward to clarify the situation and if not satisfied ask her/ him to make an appointment for you and your mother to see the consultant.

Harris27 Sun 16-Jul-23 20:47:00

As above speak to someone.

Nanatoone Sun 16-Jul-23 20:51:01

I don’t know, you say your dad was perfectly ok but he wasn’t really was he? He has pneumonia. I’ve just recovered from a bout of that at age 66 and it’s taken me (fit and healthy previously) months to get better. I feel you are being unrealistic in your expectations. The lung damage I have left over from my bout still leaves me breathless and with low oxygen from time to time. Just putting another point of view. Obviously I hope your dad comes home and does well, but I suspect what you see as abandoning your lovely dad is simply long experience of how it goes with the elderly.

drbledu23 Sun 16-Jul-23 20:51:17

He hasn't had any other episodes in the hospital as far as I know . The only thing that they have given him is a shot of Enoxoparin to prevent possible clotting or DVT - since he has been in bed for a week. They give it to all patients .....

I'm not saying he isn't in a serious condition but he was perfectly fine for the first few days eating and drinking and alert. But this sudden deterioration? Why? I did speak to the Macmillan team and asked how he had been brought to this point - they only confirmed that the hospital were discharging him to their care with an 'end of life' label stuck over him. No mention of what palliative care would constitute - from palliative to EoL in the space of a day makes one ask questions.

BlueBelle Sun 16-Jul-23 20:56:12

Obviously we know nothing but all I can say is that at that very advanced age you can go downhill very very quickly
I d definitely contact PALS and get your dad home under the gps care as soon as possible but don’t expect miracles he may be suffering something you have not known about

sukie Sun 16-Jul-23 21:02:36

This is indeed very concerning drbledu23 and it seems that time is of the essence. It would be good if you had an emergency number for your dad's GP so you could reach out immediately rather than waiting until morning. Monday mornings can be busy for GP's.
I hope you are able to relieve your mum some tonight so she can get some sleep but it would be good if one of you can be with him and alert through the night.
I will be thinking of you and wish you all the best.

Dickens Sun 16-Jul-23 21:19:31

CocoPops

If I were you I'd ask the nurse in charge of the ward to clarify the situation and if not satisfied ask her/ him to make an appointment for you and your mother to see the consultant.

Absolutely this.

Casdon Sun 16-Jul-23 21:20:18

Sorry you find yourself in this position, it’s very hard. However I don’t think you should assume the doctor who saw your dad last didn’t know what she was doing, or that the withdrawal of some of his medication was inappropriate until you’ve spoken with the doctor in charge of his care. Unless you are fully in the picture regarding test results, clinical diagnosis and observations and the reason for the drugs regime changes, as the medication put in place since his admission may have contraindicated the medicines he was taking at home, it’s easy to assume they aren’t looking after him properly when they may be doing everything appropriately for him.

drbledu23 Sun 16-Jul-23 21:24:37

sukie

This is indeed very concerning drbledu23 and it seems that time is of the essence. It would be good if you had an emergency number for your dad's GP so you could reach out immediately rather than waiting until morning. Monday mornings can be busy for GP's.
I hope you are able to relieve your mum some tonight so she can get some sleep but it would be good if one of you can be with him and alert through the night.
I will be thinking of you and wish you all the best.

No service of that kind at my dad's GP unfortunately but am prepared to hang on the phone Monday. I want to speak to the senior GP and not one of the locums on call.

My mum will not leave him and I am 100 miles away - was there on Thursday and Friday but had to leave temporarily for work reasons. She calls me each day from the ward.

Delila Sun 16-Jul-23 21:26:09

A situation in which you and your mother seem to have no involvement in the decisions being made about the care your father is receiving, and precious little explanation, must be very concerning for you. I would feel as you do.

Before things go much further make a formal request for a meeting with the consultant responsible for your father’s care, and I would contact his GP and outline my fears about the situation, in the hope that you can have a conversation with someone you are more familiar with, too.

Proper communication may put your mind at rest, sad though it may make you, but confusion and lack of information is bound to raise your suspicions.

drbledu23 Sun 16-Jul-23 21:26:21

Hithere

Does this hospital have similar complaints as yours?

There have been some - yes.

Delila Sun 16-Jul-23 21:28:52

Sorry, posted before I saw Sukie’s post.

Casdon Sun 16-Jul-23 21:34:46

drbledu23

sukie

This is indeed very concerning drbledu23 and it seems that time is of the essence. It would be good if you had an emergency number for your dad's GP so you could reach out immediately rather than waiting until morning. Monday mornings can be busy for GP's.
I hope you are able to relieve your mum some tonight so she can get some sleep but it would be good if one of you can be with him and alert through the night.
I will be thinking of you and wish you all the best.

No service of that kind at my dad's GP unfortunately but am prepared to hang on the phone Monday. I want to speak to the senior GP and not one of the locums on call.

My mum will not leave him and I am 100 miles away - was there on Thursday and Friday but had to leave temporarily for work reasons. She calls me each day from the ward.

Unfortunately your GP isn’t the right person to seek information from if your dad is in hospital, because he won’t know how he is until he is discharged. I would contact the ward sister and request a meeting with the consultant in charge of your dads care. You should be able to join in by Zoom or Microsoft Teams while you mum meets them in person as long as the ward knows in advance.

NotSpaghetti Sun 16-Jul-23 22:59:55

I would try to be there in person if this was possible.
flowers
Thinking of you