The other C word (Covid)

Marydoll,
The cruise was enjoyable but tiring. I didn't test positive until I was back home. I hope I don't get long Covid. I have been sleeping a lot and not wanting my usual morning coffee.
People are behaving as though the pandemic is over when it's not.

But getting the 'anti' lobby to comply? Those who believe that Covid is either a scam or "just like the flu"... the likes of Piers Corbyn who took part in a juvenile video which, in a very non-scientific manner, 'explained' why masks don't work? Not sure if he had a hand in the composition of the lyrics, but he certainly endorsed them <<<shudder>>> Hmm...

Yes, I thought of that, too, but I think they are a minority. It could work in a way similar to 'herd immunity', which works on the principle you don't have to vaccinate a whole population in order to eradicate or minimise the spread of a disease, just enough of them to lower the chances of it taking hold.

Obviously it could only be done by a decent government prepared to be concerned about the wellbeing of the population and to put some money into supporting mitigating measures. And into running an honest campaign based on what medical science has been discovering over the past 3 years. Not scaremongering, just educating; like the AIDS campaign.

What worries me is that there are far more people on this board alone who are reporting having had covid, sometimes more than once, than there were at the height of the pandemic measures.

MaizieD

👏👏

These are not measures which would require radical lifestyle changes.

They are not. But getting the 'anti' lobby to comply? Those who believe that Covid is either a scam or "just like the flu"... the likes of Piers Corbyn who took part in a juvenile video which, in a very non-scientific manner, 'explained' why masks don't work? Not sure if he had a hand in the composition of the lyrics, but he certainly endorsed them <<<shudder>>> Hmm...

Autumn boosters for over 65s

www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-advises-on-eligible-groups-for-2023-autumn-booster

Given that covid is now endemic, is still killing people of all ages or causing them life changing after effects, two things that I consider we shouldn't just be shrugging off, and a responsible government shouldn't be ignoring, there are things which can be done to mitigate as far as possible its effects.

Vaccination has been a bit of a game changer, but, unlike most vaccinations, it doesn't prevent one from being infected, it merely, in most cases, makes it less severe. But I think it should be offered to all, not just the elderly and those considered to be vulnerable.

We know that covid is airborne and is more likely to be caught in indoor spaces. Government could be doing far more to ensure that all public indoor spaces have effective air filtration, which would not only cut down on covid cases, but also infection by other airborne diseases, such as flu. I note that the Houses of Parliament had air filtration installed quite a long time ago.

This of course would be extremely expensive, but what savings would there be in fewer days off for sickness, both short and long term, and relieving pressure on the NHS?

We could have better availability of (cheaper?) testing kits, advice on when to test and advice on not working while still positive, with directions to employers to not insist on people working when infected.

Then there is masking. Proper masking, not just those blue surgical mask things. It was noticeable that the countries in which masking is a matter of course for more than just covid avoidance had lower death rates than most other countries. Once again, with effective masks being available at a reasonable cost. Of course, masking would also mitigate the effects of the air pollution which is such a hot topic at the moment.

These are not measures which would require radical lifestyle changes. They would be expensive but it seems much more sensible to me that government should be doing things, and contribute to the financing of them, that will protect the population, rather than ignoring it and hoping it will go away.

Exactly how I feel too Dickens. As you have said: I don't expect others to shield me - but I do expect some consideration and courtesy.

They must still track it to a certain extent ie hospital admissions and deaths. They also know the new strain exsists in the UK. Unless these figures alter significantly cannot see a problem.
Presume this winter the vacination program will still continue to protect the vunerable.

Yes, I agree, a very good, balanced post from Dickens, who is in my opinion, always the voice of reason and balance.

She says A government that appears to believe Covid is done with and doesn’t seem to want to spend any time or resources on tracking it or compiling data , does not inspire any confidence that a balance will be achieved.

She’s right. Especially given that two new mutations have been found, and one of them is apparently here in the UK, in small numbers at the moment. But what will happen during the winter?

Calm, factual and reasonable Dickens.

Excellent post Dickens.

Dickens at 12.22 - thanks for expressing this so well.

I've just been warned that Influenza B is doing the rounds in Australia so presumably will be on its way to the UK by winter.

I have just had an announcement flash up on my Facebook page from the Department of health and social care, a Covid Booster will be offered to certain groups mainly the over 65s and those deemed at risk by either their health conditions or by the type of work they do.
So I may or may not qualify as I am not yet 65 till next January but thankfully my daughter should be offered one.

CatsCatsCats

My comment about parts of Australia not going into lockdown was not a conspiracy theory, it was what I was told by a perfectly sane Australian lady while I was there. She said the area where she lived was not in lockdown but she couldn't visit places which were in lockdown.

Galaxy is perfectly correct - there is no balance. The Guardian and Independent only have to print one of their hand-wringing articles on the return of Covid, and it's 'here we go again'.

There are other opinions, other perfectly rational arguments and other experiences about the effects of Covid, or the effects of the lockdowns and other restrictions, and yet these opinions are beaten down time and time again. I'm leaving this conversation as there is no point in trying to change firmly-closed minds.

Galaxy is perfectly correct - there is no balance. The Guardian and Independent only have to print one of their hand-wringing articles on the return of Covid, and it's 'here we go again'.

In the same way that the more RW media decides to ignore its return.

Prompted by your mention of The Guardian, I searched and read this article, which appears to be the latest...

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/05/uk-almost-flying-blind-on-covid-this-autumn-experts-say

I don't see it as "hand-wringing" - more a 'this-is-where-we-are-at' narrative.

We need information, data, stats and facts, and if the following is true, then it's quite possible that the NHS will, once again, be overwhelmed.

While the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) continues to track some metrics of Covid, including hospitalisation numbers, many of the community surveillance studies tracking infection levels have finished.

Now experts have said the situation is leaving the country in the dark about how Covid may play out in the months ahead.

We need a plan - and without the collection of information, it will be very difficult to plan anything at all.

Covid may not bother you - it doesn't bother a lot of people... and we are, in fact, "learning to live with it". However, it is a viral infection that doesn't only attack the old and those who are CEV - it is not just the economically-inactive who are affected - fit and healthy young and mid 40s individuals have succumbed to this infection and some have died and others have been severely debilitated by it to the extent that it has hindered their ability to continue to be 'economically active'.

It is a public health matter and the public have a right to know what is happening and what is being done.

Ignoring its return, or overblowing it with dramatic headlines (not something The Guardian usually go in for) - both are unhelpful.

I am more than tolerant of those who question the vaccine's effectiveness, and certainly those who are worried about the possible side effects. This is a perfectly normal and logical reaction.

I'm also aware that lockdowns which paralyse the whole country and devastate the economy are measures that should be avoided. I also believe that it's possible to avoid them by judicious methods implemented to prevent, as far as possible, the spread of the damned virus. But that would necessarily involve a level of co-operation from those who are adamant that any restrictions on their daily lives is an affront to their personal 'freedom'. And it seems there are too many who are not willing to comply either through utter selfishness or a complete inability to grasp the reality of Covid.

IMO the whole Covid crisis was handled poorly by a government that was headed by a man whose ticket to Number 10 depended on his getting Brexit over the touchline.

If such a crisis occurred in a normal family environment - most rational members of that family would get together to decide - given a crisis with unknown consequences - the best course of action for the whole family. They might even decide in such dire circumstances to shelve their planned 'project' for a while in order to deal with the calamity.

We do need a balance. A government that appears to believe that Covid is done with and doesn't seem to want to spend any time or resources on tracking it or compiling data, does not inspire any confidence that a balance will be achieved. Not by me, anyway.

I am CEV, but I do not want another lockdown - I try to lead as normal a life as possible, as I'm sure others do. I take the avoiding action, I don't expect others to shield me - but I do expect some consideration and courtesy.

As for those who think that the virus was a scam perpetrated by various countries all huddled together to inflict some kind of control and tracking of populations... all I can say is that if they did a 5 minute search on the internet, they'd discover that we are already 'tracked' and, to the extent of our susceptibility to persuasion, we are already 'controlled'. No government would inflict such damage on an economy on which their own survival depended. The whole concept is utterly ludicrous.

Miss Chateline, you seem to be living in 2020/21.

Nobody is asking you to isolate or not hug now.

You do know it’s 2023 and the vaccine has made all the difference? 🤷🏽‍♀️

Those who are aghast at the fact that I continued to hike the moors daily, thereby retaining my sanity (but sadly not my marriage which was destroyed by the ludicrous travel rules and regulations) throughout lockdown
I'm sorry to hear that.

However, without wishing to be unkind, your marriage did not survive what were relatively brief separations compared to those experienced by many couples, service families for instance.
You cannot blame clinically vulnerable people for that.

So how do you expect CEV people retain their sanity?

I’m leaving the conversation because I’m really not sure what those people who are clinically vulnerable expect the rest of us to do without being labelled selfish and ignorant.
I was castigated for “lacking in compassion or empathy? Whilst expecting vulnerable people to live in isolation so you can get on with your life?”
Please, am I expected to live in isolation for the rest of my life in order to be seen as empathetic? Seriously!
Those who are aghast at the fact that I continued to hike the moors daily, thereby retaining my sanity (but sadly not my marriage which was destroyed by the ludicrous travel rules and regulations) throughout lockdown thereby breaking the law maybe should read the following article from the guardian.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/10/end-of-englands-hug-ban-highlights-confusion-over-law-and-guidance?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

CatsCatsCats

My comment about parts of Australia not going into lockdown was not a conspiracy theory, it was what I was told by a perfectly sane Australian lady while I was there. She said the area where she lived was not in lockdown but she couldn't visit places which were in lockdown.

Galaxy is perfectly correct - there is no balance. The Guardian and Independent only have to print one of their hand-wringing articles on the return of Covid, and it's 'here we go again'.

There are other opinions, other perfectly rational arguments and other experiences about the effects of Covid, or the effects of the lockdowns and other restrictions, and yet these opinions are beaten down time and time again. I'm leaving this conversation as there is no point in trying to change firmly-closed minds.

Methinks you’re the one with the firmly closed mind! Which is why you’re leaving the debate

My comment about parts of Australia not going into lockdown was not a conspiracy theory, it was what I was told by a perfectly sane Australian lady while I was there. She said the area where she lived was not in lockdown but she couldn't visit places which were in lockdown.

Galaxy is perfectly correct - there is no balance. The Guardian and Independent only have to print one of their hand-wringing articles on the return of Covid, and it's 'here we go again'.

There are other opinions, other perfectly rational arguments and other experiences about the effects of Covid, or the effects of the lockdowns and other restrictions, and yet these opinions are beaten down time and time again. I'm leaving this conversation as there is no point in trying to change firmly-closed minds.

But some of those approaches were used in this country, certainly with regard to people with learning disabilities there were some very questionable decisions.

Sweden🤔

www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-03-31/sweden-covid-policy-was-a-disaster

I think the reason the conspiracy theories flourished was because any discussion was shut down, when you do that the discussion doesnt stop it just flourishes in dark corners. It's perfectly reasonable to talk about the approach of other countries such as Sweden, it's perfectly reasonable to talk about the impact on children and the price they have paid and are still paying. I think it will be years before we can look back with any kind of balance. I think however it would be pretty impossible for a government in this country to implement a successful lockdown in the future.

Well, I have just tested again and am now clear so feel happy to go out and about again. I still have a cough and a temperature and don't have much energy but hopefully that will pass. As mentioned, I had 5 vaccines overall but as my last one was in October, I fully accept that the beneficial effects will be much reduced. The NHS will only be offering free vaccines to the over 65's (and any vulnerable people) this autumn and I believe it won't start until October. My original post was really intended to make people aware because I was in blissful ignorance - I had even thought that I wouldn't bother getting vaccinated as it 'seemed to have gone away'. I am arranging a large family gathering in October for my dad's 99th (he has had covid and was fine) but will keep an eye on the 'statistics' nearer the time - I have a horrible feeling this winter will be bad for illnesses.

‘At the end of 2020, Norway reported few COVID-19-associated deaths and little severe disease. By contrast, Sweden reported more COVID-19-associated deaths and disease. The substantially different national strategies to control the COVID-19 pandemic in the two countries and the similarity of the countries with regard to confounding variables may provide a natural experiment enabling difference-in-difference analyses [17] to explore the possible benefits and harms associated with the pandemic and its measures. Previous studies were conducted early in the course of the pandemic before complete data for 2020 became available, or have not directly compared countries, states or regions with similar socioeconomics, infrastructure, ethnicity or health care systems [18–20].’

In our ecological study, we used real-world data and transparent calculations to compare all-cause mortality and COVID-19-associated deaths in Norway and Sweden during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 with the years preceding the pandemic.
This is from the National Library of Medicine