The other C word (Covid)

Miss Chateline, you seem to be living in 2020/21.

Nobody is asking you to isolate or not hug now.

You do know it’s 2023 and the vaccine has made all the difference? 🤷🏽‍♀️

CatsCatsCats

My comment about parts of Australia not going into lockdown was not a conspiracy theory, it was what I was told by a perfectly sane Australian lady while I was there. She said the area where she lived was not in lockdown but she couldn't visit places which were in lockdown.

Galaxy is perfectly correct - there is no balance. The Guardian and Independent only have to print one of their hand-wringing articles on the return of Covid, and it's 'here we go again'.

There are other opinions, other perfectly rational arguments and other experiences about the effects of Covid, or the effects of the lockdowns and other restrictions, and yet these opinions are beaten down time and time again. I'm leaving this conversation as there is no point in trying to change firmly-closed minds.

Galaxy is perfectly correct - there is no balance. The Guardian and Independent only have to print one of their hand-wringing articles on the return of Covid, and it's 'here we go again'.

In the same way that the more RW media decides to ignore its return.

Prompted by your mention of The Guardian, I searched and read this article, which appears to be the latest...

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/05/uk-almost-flying-blind-on-covid-this-autumn-experts-say

I don't see it as "hand-wringing" - more a 'this-is-where-we-are-at' narrative.

We need information, data, stats and facts, and if the following is true, then it's quite possible that the NHS will, once again, be overwhelmed.

While the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) continues to track some metrics of Covid, including hospitalisation numbers, many of the community surveillance studies tracking infection levels have finished.

Now experts have said the situation is leaving the country in the dark about how Covid may play out in the months ahead.

We need a plan - and without the collection of information, it will be very difficult to plan anything at all.

Covid may not bother you - it doesn't bother a lot of people... and we are, in fact, "learning to live with it". However, it is a viral infection that doesn't only attack the old and those who are CEV - it is not just the economically-inactive who are affected - fit and healthy young and mid 40s individuals have succumbed to this infection and some have died and others have been severely debilitated by it to the extent that it has hindered their ability to continue to be 'economically active'.

It is a public health matter and the public have a right to know what is happening and what is being done.

Ignoring its return, or overblowing it with dramatic headlines (not something The Guardian usually go in for) - both are unhelpful.

I am more than tolerant of those who question the vaccine's effectiveness, and certainly those who are worried about the possible side effects. This is a perfectly normal and logical reaction.

I'm also aware that lockdowns which paralyse the whole country and devastate the economy are measures that should be avoided. I also believe that it's possible to avoid them by judicious methods implemented to prevent, as far as possible, the spread of the damned virus. But that would necessarily involve a level of co-operation from those who are adamant that any restrictions on their daily lives is an affront to their personal 'freedom'. And it seems there are too many who are not willing to comply either through utter selfishness or a complete inability to grasp the reality of Covid.

IMO the whole Covid crisis was handled poorly by a government that was headed by a man whose ticket to Number 10 depended on his getting Brexit over the touchline.

If such a crisis occurred in a normal family environment - most rational members of that family would get together to decide - given a crisis with unknown consequences - the best course of action for the whole family. They might even decide in such dire circumstances to shelve their planned 'project' for a while in order to deal with the calamity.

We do need a balance. A government that appears to believe that Covid is done with and doesn't seem to want to spend any time or resources on tracking it or compiling data, does not inspire any confidence that a balance will be achieved. Not by me, anyway.

I am CEV, but I do not want another lockdown - I try to lead as normal a life as possible, as I'm sure others do. I take the avoiding action, I don't expect others to shield me - but I do expect some consideration and courtesy.

As for those who think that the virus was a scam perpetrated by various countries all huddled together to inflict some kind of control and tracking of populations... all I can say is that if they did a 5 minute search on the internet, they'd discover that we are already 'tracked' and, to the extent of our susceptibility to persuasion, we are already 'controlled'. No government would inflict such damage on an economy on which their own survival depended. The whole concept is utterly ludicrous.

I have just had an announcement flash up on my Facebook page from the Department of health and social care, a Covid Booster will be offered to certain groups mainly the over 65s and those deemed at risk by either their health conditions or by the type of work they do.
So I may or may not qualify as I am not yet 65 till next January but thankfully my daughter should be offered one.

I've just been warned that Influenza B is doing the rounds in Australia so presumably will be on its way to the UK by winter.

Dickens at 12.22 - thanks for expressing this so well.

Excellent post Dickens.

Calm, factual and reasonable Dickens.

Yes, I agree, a very good, balanced post from Dickens, who is in my opinion, always the voice of reason and balance.

She says A government that appears to believe Covid is done with and doesn’t seem to want to spend any time or resources on tracking it or compiling data , does not inspire any confidence that a balance will be achieved.

She’s right. Especially given that two new mutations have been found, and one of them is apparently here in the UK, in small numbers at the moment. But what will happen during the winter?

They must still track it to a certain extent ie hospital admissions and deaths. They also know the new strain exsists in the UK. Unless these figures alter significantly cannot see a problem.
Presume this winter the vacination program will still continue to protect the vunerable.

Exactly how I feel too Dickens. As you have said: I don't expect others to shield me - but I do expect some consideration and courtesy.

Given that covid is now endemic, is still killing people of all ages or causing them life changing after effects, two things that I consider we shouldn't just be shrugging off, and a responsible government shouldn't be ignoring, there are things which can be done to mitigate as far as possible its effects.

Vaccination has been a bit of a game changer, but, unlike most vaccinations, it doesn't prevent one from being infected, it merely, in most cases, makes it less severe. But I think it should be offered to all, not just the elderly and those considered to be vulnerable.

We know that covid is airborne and is more likely to be caught in indoor spaces. Government could be doing far more to ensure that all public indoor spaces have effective air filtration, which would not only cut down on covid cases, but also infection by other airborne diseases, such as flu. I note that the Houses of Parliament had air filtration installed quite a long time ago.

This of course would be extremely expensive, but what savings would there be in fewer days off for sickness, both short and long term, and relieving pressure on the NHS?

We could have better availability of (cheaper?) testing kits, advice on when to test and advice on not working while still positive, with directions to employers to not insist on people working when infected.

Then there is masking. Proper masking, not just those blue surgical mask things. It was noticeable that the countries in which masking is a matter of course for more than just covid avoidance had lower death rates than most other countries. Once again, with effective masks being available at a reasonable cost. Of course, masking would also mitigate the effects of the air pollution which is such a hot topic at the moment.

These are not measures which would require radical lifestyle changes. They would be expensive but it seems much more sensible to me that government should be doing things, and contribute to the financing of them, that will protect the population, rather than ignoring it and hoping it will go away.

Autumn boosters for over 65s

www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-advises-on-eligible-groups-for-2023-autumn-booster

MaizieD

👏👏

These are not measures which would require radical lifestyle changes.

They are not. But getting the 'anti' lobby to comply? Those who believe that Covid is either a scam or "just like the flu"... the likes of Piers Corbyn who took part in a juvenile video which, in a very non-scientific manner, 'explained' why masks don't work? Not sure if he had a hand in the composition of the lyrics, but he certainly endorsed them <<<shudder>>> Hmm...

But getting the 'anti' lobby to comply? Those who believe that Covid is either a scam or "just like the flu"... the likes of Piers Corbyn who took part in a juvenile video which, in a very non-scientific manner, 'explained' why masks don't work? Not sure if he had a hand in the composition of the lyrics, but he certainly endorsed them <<<shudder>>> Hmm...

Yes, I thought of that, too, but I think they are a minority. It could work in a way similar to 'herd immunity', which works on the principle you don't have to vaccinate a whole population in order to eradicate or minimise the spread of a disease, just enough of them to lower the chances of it taking hold.

Obviously it could only be done by a decent government prepared to be concerned about the wellbeing of the population and to put some money into supporting mitigating measures. And into running an honest campaign based on what medical science has been discovering over the past 3 years. Not scaremongering, just educating; like the AIDS campaign.

What worries me is that there are far more people on this board alone who are reporting having had covid, sometimes more than once, than there were at the height of the pandemic measures.

Marydoll,
The cruise was enjoyable but tiring. I didn't test positive until I was back home. I hope I don't get long Covid. I have been sleeping a lot and not wanting my usual morning coffee.
People are behaving as though the pandemic is over when it's not.

You've had 5 vaccinations and you still caught covid? Worked well didnt they

Biscuitmuncher

You've had 5 vaccinations and you still caught covid? Worked well didnt they

They don't promise to stop people catching Covid. The aim is to make the symptoms less severe.

Give it a rest Biscuitmuncher. We all know immunisations don’t necessarily stop us catching covid, but usually help prevent it being very serious

I wondered when Biscuitmuncher would turn up, spouting her nonsense. She has been advised on numerous occasions that vaccinations do not prevent Covid, but do reduce the risk of dying.
Furthermore, she as been asked umpteen times in the past to provide scientific evidence to support her views, we are still waiting.
It has become rather tedious.

Marydoll

I wondered when Biscuitmuncher would turn up, spouting her nonsense. She has been advised on numerous occasions that vaccinations do not prevent Covid, but do reduce the risk of dying.
Furthermore, she as been asked umpteen times in the past to provide scientific evidence to support her views, we are still waiting.
It has become rather tedious.

I wouldn't even engage with hard-line anti-vaxxers! Why? Because their opening 'argument' is nearly always one of sneering sarcasm; it reinforces their sense of being part of an adroit group which has - unlike the rest of us "sheeple" - discovered 'the truth', that 'truth' being a conspiracy between 'big pharma', the government and of course, mainstream media.

If you present hard, cold facts, the debate will shift to another 'belief' and you will end up feeling like you're wading through treacle! Especially if you've been persuaded to watch a couple of YouTube videos in order to "educate" yourself - videos made by earnest random individuals who no-one has ever heard of, and whose credentials in the field of immunology you will search for in vain, but who are nevertheless regarded as an authority.

It's really not worth the effort!

Iam64

Give it a rest Biscuitmuncher. We all know immunisations don’t necessarily stop us catching covid, but usually help prevent it being very serious

Not a very good vaccination though is it? I’d possible accept one or maybe two but needing five is taking the proverbial.

It seems to be the accepted narrative that the vaccine reduces the severity of the illness but how do we really know? All viruses become less virulent over time - it is part of their own survival mechanism. Killing their host isn’t actually a smart move for a virus.

I put my trust in the medical establishment, not on conspiracy websites
Those of us who are CEV or in older groups get a flu jab yearly, aimed at the type of flu virus expected. They don’t always get it right but usually do. I last had flu over the millenium, as did many others as the vaccine wasn’t the right one. I’ve not had covid and would like that to continue

I agree Iam64. I have had four vaccines and want to to have my fifth when I am called. Last winter we had our boosters in November and then went to New Zealand for two months to see our daughter and grandchildren. New Zealand was in the middle of a big wave of Covid at the time, we travelled long distance on the planes, and for part of the time we were there, the Air B+B we were staying in at the time, two people actually had Covid. We didn’t get Covid. It’s not scientific but I think the protection of our recent boosters was helpful in that. We were out in restaurants, theatres, trams, and shops and we didn’t get it.

Not a very good vaccination though is it? I’d possible accept one or maybe two but needing five is taking the proverbial.

GrannyRose, being vaccinated and an infusion of anti virals saved my life, when after two years of shielding, I caught Covid from someone, who was asymptomatic,
As someone who is CEV, and having been told that a DNR notice was on my file if I caught Covid, I took every vaccination that was offered and now am awaiting an eighth.
No-one is taking the proverbial xxxx.
I prefer to listen to my clinicians, than an anonymous poster on GN.

I recall my cardiologist, who had worked in Covid ICU, saying that in his entire career, he had never seen anything like the irreparable damage he witnessed in the hearts of his patients.

Walk a day in my shoes and do some research.

I have Covid😩. I am fully vaccinated and this is the first time I’ve had it as I locked down very hard. I’ve been away at a conference and didn’t think about Covid really. For all I know that it is still around it seems to be further back in the collective consciousness. I got home on Thursday night feeling very tired, but I’d had long train journeys and 5 days of fairly intensive work, so I didn’t think much about it. I had a bath, as it had been 5 days of showers, and I was a bit achy. The bath was lovely but I really struggled to get out of it, which is not usual. I still didn’t twig, then woke up feeling terrible. I had a very sore throat, a headache sinus pain and everything hurt. My oxygen levels were 88, which is low even by my standards but I put it down to a badly blocked nose.

I couldn’t get back to sleep so checked the FB page for the conference, to find that lots of people had come down with Covid, and the penny dropped. I tested, and sure enough I have it. It’s grim. I have had proper flu, and this feels on a par. I’ve slept the clock round in the spare room which has a bowl of hot water and Olbas oil (which is my go-to remedy) and Lemsip. I don’t feel remotely like getting up - I am feeling very weak and sore, but luckily my oxygen levels and breathing have normalised (again, by my standards - I have breathing problems at the best of times), which is reassuring. I have been scared of getting it in case they dropped further and I would have to go to hospital.