Consultant appointment in NHS 3 months, 1 month private

LinkyPinky

You are queue-jumping. Treatment must be based on clinical need, not ability to pay. There will be people suffering more than you who cannot possible afford to pay. Private doctors have been trained by the NHS at public expense. The minute anything goes wrong it is the NHS which will have to deal with it. Don't do it. You are contributing to the probable loss of our NHS and it is just not fair.

Yes. Or at least 'own' it. Queue jumping should not be necessary, but as the NHS gets less able to deal with the demands placed on it, it is understandable that people will be desperate enough to do it. But have the decency to acknowledge that you (generic) are queue jumping, and don't pretend that you are freeing up a space in the NHS queue.

Mawmac, if you can afford it - go for it. I don't see that you're queue jumping. The consultant has work for the NHS (with a long queue) and another private job, where the demand and waiting time is less. In fact, if you go private, the people after you in the queue will benefit from your absence. You will gain peace of mind too.

Seeing the consultant sooner doesn't move you up the queue for an NHS operation but you can choose to go private for treatment too.

In fact, if you go private, the people after you in the queue will benefit from your absence

I give up.

Consultants do private work as self-employed individuals. Are you really suggesting that they should spend all their time in the NHS?

Of course I think the system is wrong - but I'm being realistic. A long history of underfunding - especially in the last 13 years - has crippled the NHS.

Don't blame private patients, put the blame firmly where it belongs. All those who voted for the current government, knowing full well that every public service would be cut to the bone 'own' the dire results.

We've had an increase in population (and especially older people) and developments in treatments (with recent new treatments) that's made demand skyrocket of course. How about blaming the elderly for living longer, too?

Hetty58

Consultants do private work as self-employed individuals. Are you really suggesting that they should spend all their time in the NHS?

Of course I think the system is wrong - but I'm being realistic. A long history of underfunding - especially in the last 13 years - has crippled the NHS.

Don't blame private patients, put the blame firmly where it belongs. All those who voted for the current government, knowing full well that every public service would be cut to the bone 'own' the dire results.

We've had an increase in population (and especially older people) and developments in treatments (with recent new treatments) that's made demand skyrocket of course. How about blaming the elderly for living longer, too?

I am not blaming the patients. If you read the thread, even just this page of the thread, you will see that I (and others) have repeatedly said that queue-jumping is understandable given the current state of affairs.

I blame the government absolutely. And those who voted for them. Not the poor souls who are in so much pain or fear a worsening of their condition that they pay to get seen faster.

What I keep saying, however, is that pretending that paying to see a consultant is freeing up a space for others is dishonest.

The whole point of paying is to join a shorter list for those who pay. Paying patients so join that (shorter) list instead of the NHS one and therefore jump the queue for the operation - not the NHS consultation queue. Why else would anyone do it?

And FWIW (although it is a separate discussion) I do think that NHS hospitals should be reserved for NHS patients and NHS consultants. Fully private hospitals should train their own doctors, and their patients should pay fully private fees, not pay just for diagnosis and then be treated on the NHS.

biglouis

I agree that it is up to you how you choose to spend your money. If others want to spend theirs on false nails and hair extensions thats up to them. Dont feel guilty about it for a moment. However bearing in mind how very envious and catty some people can be I would not share this information too widely with the likes of neighbours and casual aquaintances.

This really is a spurious argument.

If I have my nails "done", go to the hairdresser or take an annual holiday, then, months down the line discover that I need urgent treatment for a painful condition which will involve a lengthy wait on the NHS - I should beat myself up for having gone to the nail bar / hairdresser / had a holiday because I should've saved the money in case I needed it for private treatment?

Taken to its logical conclusion, no-one would spend their money on anything other than absolute essentials... how would businesses survive without people spending money into the economy? Should we all just save in case we might need urgent treatment? How do you think the national economy would flourish if we all did that?

The whole point of the NHS is for care at the point of need - for which we already pay National Insurance (or did).

... and people spend their money on other things than false nails and hair extensions - like books for grandchildren, family holidays, days out, visits to the theatre and museums, swimming lessons, gym membership... the list of worthwhile expenditure is enormous.

Do you think we should literally stop spending - just in case? The government do not want you to save (except for your old-age care) they want you to spend into the economy - otherwise, where are the tax receipts?

LinkyPinky

You are queue-jumping. Treatment must be based on clinical need, not ability to pay. There will be people suffering more than you who cannot possible afford to pay. Private doctors have been trained by the NHS at public expense. The minute anything goes wrong it is the NHS which will have to deal with it. Don't do it. You are contributing to the probable loss of our NHS and it is just not fair.

I have already said that I will be paying all the costs of my treatment . Of course I wish nobody had to do that or that everyone had the choice.
Maybe if something went wrong the NHS might need to take over.

Sorry, finger fumble !
That may mean someone expecting an op that day May have to wait. However, if someone has chosen to take part in a dangerous sport and has an accident needing urgent treatment the same would apply.
Also I have paid into the NHS for nearly sixty years and it is now not there for me when I need it.

I have already said that I will be paying all the costs of my treatment.

In that case, nothing on this thread applies to you, although I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that someone who needs an operation when you have yours will have to wait. That won't apply unless you are using the NHS, as a private hospital will have its own lists and won't have double booked you.

I was referring to this.
The minute anything goes wrong it is the NHS which will have to deal with it. Don't do it.

biglouis

I agree that it is up to you how you choose to spend your money. If others want to spend theirs on false nails and hair extensions thats up to them. Dont feel guilty about it for a moment. However bearing in mind how very envious and catty some people can be I would not share this information too widely with the likes of neighbours and casual aquaintances.

What a terrible thing to say.

So if I have a child or GC, or my OH, on massive waiting list, in dreadful pain, and at risk of severe impairment or death - and I see you jumping the queue- resulting in them having to continue to wait -

I would be 'very envious and catty'?

No wonder the world is in such a mess.

ginny

I was referring to this.
The minute anything goes wrong it is the NHS which will have to deal with it. Don't do it.

Ah, I see.

Well, I hope it all goes well, and that the op is a success (for you - not in case the NHS has to take over, in case that is not clear )

Is there any evidence that people come here from abroad, get specialist training in the NHS and then return home to share NHS expertise in their native countries or is this just wishful thinking on some posters part. It is indeed a very noble wish and would be great if it were true but somehow I don’t think it is the norm even if it happens sometimes.

Maw Mac

Don’t feel guilty about putting yourself first for once. Go private if that will ease your suffering sooner.

I understand the concern about the two tier system and I wish it were otherwise. However medics are free to work for whoever they wish to work for, and if they prefer to work in a private hospital, an NHS hospital, or to move between the two, then that is their choice. As medics are not well paid in this country compared with what they could earn in some other countries, I feel it is better if they continue to sell their skills to this country rather than some other countries, who will happily poach our staff. And please remember that nurses and midwives were not required to pay any university fees (I’m not sure if that is still the case) and doctors pay for the first four years of their tuition, although they don’t pay for years 5/6 because they are working in clinical practice in our hospitals, obviously overseen by more senior doctors. At this point our doctors learn from other doctors, not from teaching in university. They are not using teachers or university facilities at all, except for examinations for these years, so no requirement for university fees.
Just to confirm, I am currently waiting on a long list for further investigations for my hand/nerve pain, including an MRI scan. I wish I could in some way get quicker consultation but it seems impossible and I’m in bad pain every day. But I still feel medics have the same rights as the rest of us to choose their employer.

I know you do, maddie (). That really is another debate, that has been covered often on here, and probably shouldn't get in the way of this one. Of course it is the doctors' choice as the system stands, but the question is about whether choosing to work privately means that NHS patients suffer as patients can opt to use both systems to their advantage.

MawMac asked if by paying to see a consultant privately she would be undermining the NHS. Many people have said that she will, although they understand why she might choose to do so (no-one has condemned her or suggested that she should or shouldn't do anything).

Some people, however, have said that she should pay if she can, as if she does so she will free up a space for people on the NHS list.

Others, including me, have pointed out that this is not the case (unless she pays to go to a fully private hospital, and they are thin on the ground and far more expensive than the NHS unless you just want a verruca removed or something), but still people keep insisting that it is somehow an act of charity to pay to get seen quickly knowing that doing so will mean that you will be treated more quickly on the NHS.

Doodledog

ginny
I was referring to this.
The minute anything goes wrong it is the NHS which will have to deal with it. Don't do it.
Ah, I see.

Well, I hope it all goes well, and that the op is a success (for you - not in case the NHS has to take over, in case that is not clear smile)

Thank you.

Oh God Doodledog, sometimes I wish doctors weren’t free to choose their employer or country in which to work because if they couldn’t, my lovely daughter and grandchildren would still be in the UK instead of in New Zealand, where she went with her now ex husband (unfortunately coercive control.) How I wish she was not there working as a doctor, but was instead here working in the UK in our NHS.
I think our OP should get the quickest treatment she can get because she’s in pain and if she can afford to pay then it’s value for money for her. My excellent hand surgeon works part time in the NHS and although he did my hand surgery some years ago he can’t help with this nerve pain in my hand, possibly caused it has been suggested, by Covid. If going privately would help I would definitely go private as I’ve been over two years with hand pain, but my GP is not keen on referring me. I don’t know how long our OP has been in pain but she suggested it was a while, and the quicker she sees someone, hopefully the quicker the resolution.

Ideally of course, no one would wait for treatment or investigation, but the NHS is rationed by government choice. Given that we all pay for it through our insurance when we work, and our taxes (and we’re more highly taxed now than ever before I believe) then rationing healthcare is very poor form in my opinion.

Doodledog:

'I give up' - but you haven't, have you?

btw, my doctor friend says that consultants would have to get paid a lot more for NHS work - if they couldn't top up their incomes with private practice.

Hetty58

Doodledog:

'I give up' - but you haven't, have you?

Nope. Nor have you, it seems.

Maddie I feel for you re your daughter (as you know). I will say it for the millionth time (to please Hetty) - I don't blame the OP for doing whatever she decides. I just blame those who perpetuate the lie that getting oneself bumped up the queue is freeing up a space.

maddyone, it's always been rationed to some degree - and it's allowed to be ageist too. When the NHS was first set up, it was thought that it would gradually cost less as people had their problems fixed. Well, they got that wrong, didn't they?

Re the vexed question of “freeing up an NHS place”, I once heard it described as waiting in a queue for a bus, finding that the queue, instead of getting shorter was growing longer as you wait, because your bus driver is moonlighting round the corner in his other job driving taxis.

My private gynae consultant was going to do a full hysterectomy last week so I could then sort out my kidney problems. The fibroid gave me a DVT and now she won't touch me and says I have to go NHS can't get an "urgent" appointment this year and I'm liable to get more DVTs......