The OECD has published a report that shows that when it comes the money per head invested in health services the UK is one of the bigger spenders. Only 5 countries in the world spend more - US, Germany, France, japan and Austria.
However, when it comes to outcomes, despite this high expenditure we are way down in the rankings.
For example, on average OECD countries have 4.3 hospital beds for 1,000 people. The UK has 2.3., with only 5 below us. OECD has 38 members, so we are rank 33 out of 38. We have fewer MRI, CT and PET scanners and we also have some of the worst paid nurses.
www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/health-at-a-glance-2023_7a7afb35-en
Surely the time has come for a major review of how the health service is run in this country and why we get such poor outcomes from the money invested and with those in politics and the health service claiming it is underfunded.
It clearly is not under funded, just badly organised and run.
Oh stop all this blaming the right wing press nonsense. there are left wing papers as well: The Guardian, The i. the Daily Mirror and The Observer. All well read and I haven't seen anything in them either.
The NHS is in such a parlous state in Wales - run by Labour - that people cross the border to be treated in England. Something to look forward to...
M0nica
Oh stop all this blaming the right wing press nonsense. there are left wing papers as well: The Guardian, The i. the Daily Mirror and The Observer. All well read and I haven't seen anything in them either.
Monica, you accuse me of knocking the right wing press without looking in the more left wing papers first yourself to see if if what you say of their reporting on this is actually true- or commenting on the Welsh Governments report.
This is the latest comparative article on waiting lists I could find from the Guardian, for example.
www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/14/which-uk-nation-has-got-the-longest-nhs-waiting-list
As I’ve said it’s a complex picture and believing in what is reported in right wing papers about the Welsh NHS performance is prejudiced.
It is, of course, very nuanced, between different services, and different systems, I’m not denying that the services here have issues - I’m just really surprised that somebody who normally makes valuable contributions to threads as you do would fall for it.
LovesBach
The NHS is in such a parlous state in Wales - run by Labour - that people cross the border to be treated in England. Something to look forward to...
Oh dear. People from England come to Wales for treatment all the time too. It’s so common it even has a name and a policy. Cross border flow. It also happens between England and Scotland.
LovesBach
The NHS is in such a parlous state in Wales - run by Labour - that people cross the border to be treated in England. Something to look forward to...
nation.cymru/opinion/blaming-westminster-for-the-state-of-the-nhs-in-wales-wont-wash-any-longer/
Do you know what nation.cymru is Primrose53?
The point here is that the NHS is in a state in Wales, so hardly a shining example of what can be done with Labour in charge.
Casdon
Do you know what nation.cymru is Primrose53?
You can be so pompous at times Casdon. Of course I do.
LovesBach
The NHS is in such a parlous state in Wales - run by Labour - that people cross the border to be treated in England. Something to look forward to...
How?
You have to be referred by a GP; at one time you could be referred across the border and even treated in a private hospital in Engand but, as far as I know, that is no longer available.
Happygirl79
SGBoo
This is a little off centre - Western countries pay more for meds. The nhs charges trusts more for meds and kit too. The nhs is also top heavy - salaries are high for people in management.
The NHS is currently treating emergencies which by nature costs more because it can't get on top of more preventative/routine care.
I want the nhs we had when I was growing up. It was well funded and staffed. We had matrons or sisters who made sure wards were ran well, we had health professionals in schools providing vaccines and check ups.
This means we need more qualified health practioners employed not via a bloody agency in our nhs.
The tories have fd up our health care. Get them out. The nhs was making great progress under the last Labour government.I totally agree with everything you said
The nhs was making great progress under the last Labour government
As I pointed out above, that is absolutely untrue.
An indication of the health service in Wales:
We received letters yesterday morning at 11.30 am inviting us for Covid vaccinations. The appointments were for the previous Wednesday, 8th November.
Callistemon21
LovesBach
The NHS is in such a parlous state in Wales - run by Labour - that people cross the border to be treated in England. Something to look forward to...
How?
You have to be referred by a GP; at one time you could be referred across the border and even treated in a private hospital in Engand but, as far as I know, that is no longer available.
Even unluckier now in Wales then - a poor service and no option of a 'cross border' choice.
Callistemon21
An indication of the health service in Wales:
We received letters yesterday morning at 11.30 am inviting us for Covid vaccinations. The appointments were for the previous Wednesday, 8th November.
It's not just Wales where that kind of thing is happening. I've lost count of the number of Covid and flu jab invitations I've had - one of which was for a date which has gone. I had both during September. I also had an "invitation" for a special health check at the same time because I'd been "identified" as a risk (for what?). Curiously, I had a completed diabetic review with weight, blood pressure, urine test and full bloods just a couple of days previously. All the results are on my NHS app. To me, that's an indication that the IT systems aren't properly co-ordinated and could do with some investment to get people in to sort it out (but that would increase "management" costs).
SGBoo
This is a little off centre - Western countries pay more for meds. The nhs charges trusts more for meds and kit too. The nhs is also top heavy - salaries are high for people in management.
The NHS is currently treating emergencies which by nature costs more because it can't get on top of more preventative/routine care.
I want the nhs we had when I was growing up. It was well funded and staffed. We had matrons or sisters who made sure wards were ran well, we had health professionals in schools providing vaccines and check ups.
This means we need more qualified health practioners employed not via a bloody agency in our nhs.
The tories have fd up our health care. Get them out. The nhs was making great progress under the last Labour government.
I most certainly don't want the NHS the country I had when I was growing up. Life expectancy was lower, maternal death rates were higher, people died from cancers which are now treatable. Consultants were considered to be "gods" and woe betide anybody who challenged them. I spent quite a lot of my early childhood in hospital and memories of the matron still give me nightmares. I well remember the daily ward rounds when everything had to be "just right" for matron, no matter how patients were feeling. I was once told off by her for being tearful when I was upset. Even the nurses, who were generally lovely, seemed scared of her.
growstuff
Callistemon21
An indication of the health service in Wales:
We received letters yesterday morning at 11.30 am inviting us for Covid vaccinations. The appointments were for the previous Wednesday, 8th November.It's not just Wales where that kind of thing is happening. I've lost count of the number of Covid and flu jab invitations I've had - one of which was for a date which has gone. I had both during September. I also had an "invitation" for a special health check at the same time because I'd been "identified" as a risk (for what?). Curiously, I had a completed diabetic review with weight, blood pressure, urine test and full bloods just a couple of days previously. All the results are on my NHS app. To me, that's an indication that the IT systems aren't properly co-ordinated and could do with some investment to get people in to sort it out (but that would increase "management" costs).
The IT systems are definitely not co-ordinated as we have found out from other experiences.
growstuff
Callistemon21
An indication of the health service in Wales:
We received letters yesterday morning at 11.30 am inviting us for Covid vaccinations. The appointments were for the previous Wednesday, 8th November.It's not just Wales where that kind of thing is happening. I've lost count of the number of Covid and flu jab invitations I've had - one of which was for a date which has gone. I had both during September. I also had an "invitation" for a special health check at the same time because I'd been "identified" as a risk (for what?). Curiously, I had a completed diabetic review with weight, blood pressure, urine test and full bloods just a couple of days previously. All the results are on my NHS app. To me, that's an indication that the IT systems aren't properly co-ordinated and could do with some investment to get people in to sort it out (but that would increase "management" costs).
I’m in Wales, my letter for Covid vaccination arrived on 1st November, and my appointment is this coming Thursday, 16th November, so I had over two weeks notice. It’s very annoying if letters are received late, but that’s not always the fault of the instigator. Did you check the date the letter was dated Callistemon21, as that will confirm where the fault lay - if I were you I’d be pursuing it to see if it was the instigator, the internal post system, or the Post Office at fault. My letter came from Pontypridd, so I’d guess yours did too, it’s really odd that we would have such different experiences, so something clearly went wrong with yours.
LovesBach
Callistemon21
LovesBach
The NHS is in such a parlous state in Wales - run by Labour - that people cross the border to be treated in England. Something to look forward to...
How?
You have to be referred by a GP; at one time you could be referred across the border and even treated in a private hospital in Engand but, as far as I know, that is no longer available.Even unluckier now in Wales then - a poor service and no option of a 'cross border' choice.
Smoke and mirrors. Here’s what FullFact has to say about claims made by Steve Barclay.
fullfact.org/health/wales-nhs-england-treatment-steve-barclay/
No, they're definitely not co-ordinated. I suspect the reason for that is that the NHS is now so fragmented with each little bit being responsible for commissioning its own IT systems from third party providers. It's not just Wales. Part of the problems I experience is because I live in one area, but right on the edge. I live miles from the area's main hospital, so most people use the hospital in the next county, which is much nearer. As a result, there is very little communication between primary and secondary care. It causes funding problems too. If a hospital consultant orders a blood test, it has to be done by the hospital phlebotomist. My local GP or community hospital is reluctant to do it because they don't get paid for it.
Over the last couple of years I've had treatment, including vaccinations, from a number of different providers. Curiously, I've discovered that the records of jabs from pharmacists find their way to the NHS app more quickly than those provided by the GP consortium. My very first Covid jab, which was provided by the national "system" still hasn't appeared on the NHS app.
As for the "high risk" health check, I suspect somebody in the local Integrated Care System thought Covid jabs would be a good opportunity to weigh everybody and take BP of high risk patients. That's why I received a text stating that's what would happen when I had my jab. What the computer didn't tell them was that I'd already had my jab at a pharmacy (it was on the app) and I'd only recently had just about every health check I need.
I think it's a good idea for people to have their health checked (even if they don't have symptoms) and I do usually comply with requests, but it is irritating to receive requests for tests I know I don't need.
Callistemon21
An indication of the health service in Wales:
We received letters yesterday morning at 11.30 am inviting us for Covid vaccinations. The appointments were for the previous Wednesday, 8th November.
Sorry I couldn’t help 😂
Casdon
growstuff
Callistemon21
An indication of the health service in Wales:
We received letters yesterday morning at 11.30 am inviting us for Covid vaccinations. The appointments were for the previous Wednesday, 8th November.It's not just Wales where that kind of thing is happening. I've lost count of the number of Covid and flu jab invitations I've had - one of which was for a date which has gone. I had both during September. I also had an "invitation" for a special health check at the same time because I'd been "identified" as a risk (for what?). Curiously, I had a completed diabetic review with weight, blood pressure, urine test and full bloods just a couple of days previously. All the results are on my NHS app. To me, that's an indication that the IT systems aren't properly co-ordinated and could do with some investment to get people in to sort it out (but that would increase "management" costs).
I’m in Wales, my letter for Covid vaccination arrived on 1st November, and my appointment is this coming Thursday, 16th November, so I had over two weeks notice. It’s very annoying if letters are received late, but that’s not always the fault of the instigator. Did you check the date the letter was dated Callistemon21, as that will confirm where the fault lay - if I were you I’d be pursuing it to see if it was the instigator, the internal post system, or the Post Office at fault. My letter came from Pontypridd, so I’d guess yours did too, it’s really odd that we would have such different experiences, so something clearly went wrong with yours.
Yes, Casdon - the letter was dated 9th November!!
It would be funny if it wasn't such a worrying waste of time and money!
It's not the first time it has happened, it has happened with hospital appointments too.
I'll check the post mark.
Casdon
growstuff
Callistemon21
An indication of the health service in Wales:
We received letters yesterday morning at 11.30 am inviting us for Covid vaccinations. The appointments were for the previous Wednesday, 8th November.It's not just Wales where that kind of thing is happening. I've lost count of the number of Covid and flu jab invitations I've had - one of which was for a date which has gone. I had both during September. I also had an "invitation" for a special health check at the same time because I'd been "identified" as a risk (for what?). Curiously, I had a completed diabetic review with weight, blood pressure, urine test and full bloods just a couple of days previously. All the results are on my NHS app. To me, that's an indication that the IT systems aren't properly co-ordinated and could do with some investment to get people in to sort it out (but that would increase "management" costs).
I’m in Wales, my letter for Covid vaccination arrived on 1st November, and my appointment is this coming Thursday, 16th November, so I had over two weeks notice. It’s very annoying if letters are received late, but that’s not always the fault of the instigator. Did you check the date the letter was dated Callistemon21, as that will confirm where the fault lay - if I were you I’d be pursuing it to see if it was the instigator, the internal post system, or the Post Office at fault. My letter came from Pontypridd, so I’d guess yours did too, it’s really odd that we would have such different experiences, so something clearly went wrong with yours.
Apologies, letters were dated 7th November, the day before the appointments and came from Swansea which would normally be something to do with the DVLA! 🤔
If posted on Tuesday they took 4 days to arrive.
I wonder how this can be right?
A friend had a cataract operation at a private clinic, under NHS funding. The first operation was fine, the second had complications and she was told she would have to go to Bradford for the cataract procedure to be completed. A taxi from Newcastle was provided. The round trip was £358 only because the driver from Newcastle was willing to wait without his meter running. Usually there would be a taxi from Newcastle to Bradford and then another taxi from Bradford to Newcastle for the return journey. A cost of around £716.
I travelled with my friend and on arrival at the clinic was told there was an hour and half delay. When she eventually saw the surgeon (2 hours after her appointment time) it was for around 10 minutes. He assessed the problem and now she has to go back again for the actual surgery. My friend is 72 years old, a diabetic on insulin, and has mobility issues. She had been up since 6am preparing for the taxi at 9am. We didn't get back to Newcastle until 5pm. She was exhausted, all for a 10 minute consultation when there are extremely good eye hospitals virtually on the doorstep. No doubt she was seen more quickly than waiting for an appointment at Sunderland Eye Infirmary or Newcastle's RVI but I attended appointments with her and at no time was it explained she would have to travel so far if complications developed.
With my friends permission I did ask if she could be referred to a local hospital but was told this was not possible under the contract the clinic has with the NHS.
For some a round trip of 230 miles would be no problem but for some it is stressful and exhausting, apart from the worry of surgery. And surely £716, plus the environmental impact, is not good use of what is essentially public funds. And it is a journey that has to be done all over again for the actual surgery.
I strongly believe we need our NHS but it needs to be looked at holistically and its piecemeal organisation revised so it can become more cohesive. Political party ideologies (of everything is better privately run) need to be put to one side for the benefit of every person and the NHS.
This gov't does spend a lot on health for us, but they have included figures for the PPE that they bought and much turned out to be unusable & Sunak decided just to write that off. Many strange decisions were made, companies with no experience of PPE were commissioned. It may, or may not, be relevant that many had links to Tory politicians.
Also much work is now commissioned from private firms though they are allowed to use NHS logo so its not immediately obvious.
Dental care is one example, I have to travel 30miles for an NHS dentist & that is provided by BUPA, I doubt that the cost to the NHS is the same as it used to be.
A word of warning, that is what Tories will do to the GP service if they get in again, we won't be able to get a local GP, we'll have to travel miles. All part of their plans to hoist private healthcare on us.
You won’t be able to get an appointment with your GP whoever gets in because there aren’t enough GPs and many are leaving to go to work in Canada, Australia, or New Zealand.
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