The right to choose to die

So sorry Franbern - I share GSM wishes for peaceful release

I’m so sorry Franbern. You and your ex have been in my prayers since you first posted and will continue to be. The body can be so resilient. I wish a peaceful release for all of you.

My ex huband is still waiting to die!!!!!!
All the Advanced Directives in the World, and DNR Notices make absolutely no difference, if the body just refuses to die.
He has now been in the Hospice for the past ten days, no medication being given for his condition, no oxygen - just palliative care with loads of morphine.

Taking in a few sips of water on the occasions he wakes. Plus a mouthful or two of yoghurt. That is all. Back over a week ago, we would told about three days. Yesterday we were told three or four days!!!! When he originally told the Doctor he wanted to finish it, he thought that would be it, not that he would be lingering on for so long.

It is so horrible for all of us

GSM absolutely!

If your body isn’t used to the medication, or you wash it down with alcohol, there is a risk of vomiting whilst still conscious - once unconscious you may choke on it but the outcome is the same if sufficient has entered your bloodstream. An insufficient dose entering the bloodstream would indeed have very nasty results. Same with, for instance, paracetamol. Nobody would want to endure those consequences.

GSM, a super informative post! There is serious problem with self deliverance which is that if you do't take anti nausea medication or take too little barbiturate and fail to die you my well end up even worse.

Doctor assisted dying will soon be legal in the UK.
In the meantime we can draw up an advance directive, very easy to do, add your own notes if you like.

Leave copies with your doctor medical notes, the ward manager if you are admitted, one for yourself and relatives, and a solicitor. The advance directive is a legal document to which authorities must respect.

This is one of the most difficult decisions anyone has to take but my main concern is that some people could be encouraged to die. As an earlier poster mentioned, the patient's wishes should be witnessed by at least two independent persons who are not related in any way.

In some cases, yes barbiturates are regularly prescribed. I have a prescription each month for epilepsy. No chance of waking up if I took even a week’s worth.

biglouis

My views on the right to end ones life have been made known before on here. Like some of the upthread posters I keep enough barbiturates to kill me several times over. I only hope that I have the ability to use them when the time comes to end my life.

I would also without hesitation assist someone close to me who wanted to die. Ive already had this discussion with my closest relative.

How do you know how much you need to end it? You might wake up …..

Where do you get the barbiturates? It’s not something that is regularly prescribed is it??

My views on the right to end ones life have been made known before on here. Like some of the upthread posters I keep enough barbiturates to kill me several times over. I only hope that I have the ability to use them when the time comes to end my life.

I would also without hesitation assist someone close to me who wanted to die. Ive already had this discussion with my closest relative.

AFAIK DNR only covers resuscitation after the heart has stopped. And it can be very painful afterwards for anyone elderly, broken ribs, etc. - as a late-80s neighbour who’d been given it told me before he died a few months later anyway.

IMO you need your wishes as regards any ‘striving to keep alive’ made crystal clear in a P of A.

Whom would do this. The responsibility should not rest with medics, or nurses. Unless of course a DNR instruction, which you can do anyway. You can also refuse to be treated. To make someone else responsible for taking a life, I do not agree. The road to euthanasia is not without huge risk of it being abused.

My husband died four years ago ,the day before his 79th birthday. He had pulmonary fibrosis, dementia and was on oxygen 24 hours a day.He had his third cardiac arrest two days after leaving hospital
After dialling 999 I called his son and daughter.I was sat with the ambulance driver on the way to hospital while the paramedics worked on him.
We sat in the relatives room waiting for news when the Dr came and said he was alive but he would be brain damaged due to lack of oxygen, what did we want them to do.We all agreed immediately that he should not be resuscitated.
We then sat by his bed and watched his breathing become slower until he died twenty minutes later.Very peacefully and in no pain.
We never regretted our decision.
I am so sorry for others who have to watch their loved ones die in pain and distress.

Whiff - your final paragraph says it all. By day 3 of my husband’s end of life care, our youngest daughter said ‘mum this is so hard, you would never let one if your dogs suffer like this’. ‘Luckily’, his morphine was increased. He died 24 hours later.
I’m still grateful to all the staff involved in his care. He couldn’t move, speak or swallow. We were shown how to care for his mouth which helped us feel we were contributing to efforts to keep him comfortable
.

adrisco my heart goes out to you and your family. You are going through a living grief. The person you love has died but their body lives on. It's so unfair I know with my mom . I wish when her mind went her body had died at the same time. Mom would have hated what she became. Unfortunately my mom became violent the last 4 months of her life. Which wasn't my mom. But the violence isn't against you it's out of fear . My mom didn't know who she was,where or how I was . She thought I was her mom . She told me daily she loved even when attacking me. I was more frightened of hurting her when trying to restrain her. I used the duvet to hold her still so she didn't hurt herself on the bed bar which I had pillows along and against the wall. I couldn't put her in a home. I knew even ill myself I could look after her better . Luckily she was never violent towards anyone else.

My mom was always spotless clean and won't tell you some of the things she did. My family still don't know. But did tell my best friend recently mom died in 2017.

Luckily mom's violence was only 4 months but my brother's mother in-laws lasted 3 years before she died. It broke her husbands heart when he had to put her into a home but he was 87 and had been looking after her at home for 5 years at home by himself.

These will soon horrible but you may understand. When I went into mom every morning I hoped she had died in the night and every time she slept during the day when she woke I didn't know if I would be attacked or she would be wanting to talk about when she was a child.

When she died it was a relief mom would have hated what she became and if she had realised and had the strength she would have thrown herself down the stairs . She had threatened to do that at the start of the down hill slide. I said go one but I wouldn't pick you up she said I won't them.

Quality of life is more important than quantity. Also to me life wouldn't be worth living without dignity. My mom had no quality or dignity. And those that say dieing is peaceful and beautiful they haven't had my experience watching 4 people die. It was horrendous every time.

Animals are not left to suffer but human beings are what does that say about this country.

I don't think my husband knew me and my daughter (his stepdaughter) when we visited him today. He seemed pleased to see us but think we could have been anyone. He asked my daughter if she had any siblings. She told him she had 3 older brothers and said their names - which didn't seem to mean anything to him. Later he said to her "I don't think I know your mum do I?" My heart is breaking - a month ago he was ok. Now he is like this - immobile and demented. He would hate to be like this if he knew what was happening.

PamelaJ1

Witzend

I’ve said this before on here, but one thing we can all do is to add a paragraph to our Health and Welfare Power of Attorney, to say that in the event of our being unable both to care for ourselves, and speak (with full mental capacity) for ourselves, we do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment. Palliative care only, please.

But palliative care can prolong suffering.
My sisters MinL was in hospital, and decided she had had enough. Told the medics that she wanted her oxygen discontinued. That was done but my sister and the rest of the family stayed with her for a few very distressing hours until she died.
The medical staff were very supportive but could only do so much.
My DH has recently had a diagnosis that will end up with the need for him to be connected to an oxygen cylinder. This may not be for quite a while but he doesn’t want his death to be like hers and neither do I.

I agree, it can - gasping for air, with a mouth that is so dry because they have withdrawn fluids and food, isn't something that I would want.

Whitewavemark2

My elderly Aunt (96) has recently suffered a stroke which has left her with sundowners syndrome. She has been in hospital for about a month. She lives with her son, who has bad arthritis and mental issues which means he cannot deal with people at a social level although intelligent and functions very well otherwise.

There is nothing more that the hospital can do. My aunt is now paralysed down one side and suffers very badly from very painful arthritis. Sundowners syndrome has left her very agitated and at times hallucinates largely at night -although at other times she appears reasonably ok . But she is very unhappy now.

She is being sent home with carers coming in 4 times a day. I can’t see how my cousin can possibly cope, because her disruptive behaviour happens all night - he will never get any rest. The social worker said that he would closely monitor the situation🤔. We shall see.

My aunt throughout her life has always maintained that she would follow the road to euthanasia if she could be given the choice. This is just the sort of scenario that she would have envisaged.

Life is very cruel at times.

That is just awful - there's no way on earth he will be able to manage that, and a Social Worker doesn't have the time to 'closely monitor' any situation! Hundreds of thousands of people are struggling to even get assessed in a timely manner.

That is going to end up being catastrophic for the pair of them, he just won't cope I'm sure. Yes, the system is also being cruel to them, and it seems that she knew it would be sadly ... dreadful.

Luckygirl3

Sending loving thoughts to those going through this painful time.

I refused active care for my OH when he was so ill. His end of life care was good and I do not think he was in any pain - the merest hint of distress and he was given a calming injection and he drifted off again. It was a peaceful time for us all, and we were able to sit round his bed and share memories knowing that he was in no distress and that the end would come soon.

Luckygirl13 in that instance you really were lucky, and I am glad that he did have a 'god death' for all concerned.

Witzend

I’ve said this before on here, but one thing we can all do is to add a paragraph to our Health and Welfare Power of Attorney, to say that in the event of our being unable both to care for ourselves, and speak (with full mental capacity) for ourselves, we do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment. Palliative care only, please.

But palliative care can prolong suffering.
My sisters MinL was in hospital, and decided she had had enough. Told the medics that she wanted her oxygen discontinued. That was done but my sister and the rest of the family stayed with her for a few very distressing hours until she died.
The medical staff were very supportive but could only do so much.
My DH has recently had a diagnosis that will end up with the need for him to be connected to an oxygen cylinder. This may not be for quite a while but he doesn’t want his death to be like hers and neither do I.

Dee1012

Poppyred

I totally agree. It’s the stuff of nightmares and the law needs to be changed!

I won't go into great detail about the death of my parents but it really was the stuff of nightmares....
After my mum's death my brother had to be sedated and to this day, he'll still wake at night.
My dad was screaming...staff kept saying "he's not in pain" but nothing will persuade me otherwise, that lasted for 12 days.

It's horrendous...

OMG Dee1012, I am so, so sorry, and as I said above, my MP thinks it's acceptable ... he's a far right fascist too, so it figures.

Whiff

When my husband was terminal we talked about what if the pain got to hard to bear. He decided he wanted his life to end and if he had asked I would have given him a massive dose of morphine. Our children knew their dads decision and supported it.

Our McMillan nurse had already told us the only dose to stop his agony was the dose that would have killed him.

This was end 2003 beginning 2004. We had enough morphine tablets in the house to kill several herds of elephants. In fact our son took 2 large carrier bags full of tablet and liquid morphine to the pharmacy the day after his dad died.

Quality of life is what's important not quantity. My husband had no quality of life and was on a morphine doser . He became unconscious before he could ask me to over dose him. On full oxygen he couldn't breath. They say hearing is the last thing to go. He was at home in our bed with me and the children and I told him to stop fighting we would be ok..He died few minutes after.

My mom's dementia killed her long before her body died. She would have hated what she became . My mom attacked my daily for 4 months verbally and physically. I wish in her lucid moments she had ask me to stop her suffering. And I would have . Even though I would have had a criminal record.

I hope when my time comes I can choice how and when I want to die. Animals have more rights in this country than humans. No one would let an animal stuffer but it's ok for a human to be in agony.

I am so very sorry Franbern, Adrisco, and Whiff. Such awful times.

My daughter wanted to die because of the unbearable emotional pain she felt and always said to me 'Mum I want you to help me to die, it's not fair that they can treat your physical pain but not my pain'. She took her life on the 24th November last year, so we have just had to go through that first year anniversary which was very hard, and another Christmas is looming.

It's almost bizarre that during the pandemic, DNR's were slapped on people over 60 who ended up in hospital with 'respiratory distress' and who were basically euthanised as no-one was allowed near them to see what was happening, yet we cannot now just help someone who most definitely is going to die, to have a good death.

I have every intention of seeing myself off when the time comes; I have the means and it would be easy assuming I can administer said means myself - I have an abject fear of dying in hospital, and most definitely do not want to go anywhere near a care home (a hospice though would be okay). My remaining daughter knows my wishes.

My best friend saw her mother choke to death in a care home as the GP wouldn't come out and she hadn't been written up for any end of life medication - disgusting! She has already told me that she would pay for me to have a nice holiday in Switzerland ... it's wrong.

My MP, Danny 'it's not your fanny' Kruger did a programme on C4 with his mum, Prue Leith - she was FOR and he was absolutely AGAINST assisted dying. They went and visited places all over the world where it is practised, but he didn't change his mind, thought that the NHS would provide us with a good death. Well I hope he doesn't have to see his mum choke to death on her own secretions, and I have told him such, not that he ever replies to me! I pity Pru when the time comes ....

No, that's a good point. Maybe I'll put a signed note with my POA document and tell the children to use their discretion about whether to use it. I trust them, and we could discuss it before I did it. I'll talk about it with Mr Dog, too.

I would hope it’d be enough, Doodledog, but especially having had far too much experience of dementia in the family, we want it down in black and white, too.

In any case, if it’s not in what you committed to paper when you were capable and fully compos mentis, how are any medics to know that your Attorneys are not thinking, ‘Sooner she pops off the better - there’s a nice fat inheritance waiting!’

Not that I’d ever suspect ours (dds) of any such thing, of course!