NHS - oh dear!

When my husband was taken to A&E a couple of weeks ago very poorly we had nurses from Somalia, the West Indies, UK and a wonderful Muslim nurse who was kindness itself.

Dickens

foxie48

My local hospital ('local' but pivotal in Oncology) is in an area where there's a substantial immigrant population.

Having unfortunately been one of the over 65s needing, at one time, frequent hospital admissions, I know from my own experience that the majority of immigrants are not in the beds- they are the ones making them. One of my 3 consultants is an immigrant. The nurses are from Spain, Italy, Poland, and southern India. The hospital porters likewise, and the cleaners and catering staff. In fact, if all those immigrants were suddenly to decamp - the hospital would have to close its doors.

To be honest, I didn't count them, but my experience with breast cancer care was the same. The surgeon and the consultant oncologist both had Indian names and slight accents, so my guess would be they weren't born in the UK. I must have seen a couple of dozen people in total, including nurses, radiographers, assistant doctors, phlebotomists, MRI operators, mammographers and people I've probably forgotten. I didn't keep a tally, but my guess would be at least half of them had immigrant backgrounds.

Seven years ago, my stent was fitted by a German doctor and the registrar was also German (I know because we got chatting and he came from a place I know well). My children were both delivered by an Indian consultant (by CS). The senior nurse when my mother was dying was Rumanian, as was the best GP I've ever had.

M0nica

growstuff that is part of the problem as well, which is why I mentioned the need for training and clear career paths, because with that should go the rate for the job - and not the current one -

Successive governments in this country, have preferred buying in people from other countries, to properly training young people already in the country.

But somebody will always have to do the jobs "at the bottom". The issue is that nobody is willing to pay them more. There is a career path for care workers who want to gain nursing qualifications, but if they are promoted, somebody will still have to replace them.

growstuff that is part of the problem as well, which is why I mentioned the need for training and clear career paths, because with that should go the rate for the job - and not the current one -

Successive governments in this country, have preferred buying in people from other countries, to properly training young people already in the country.

foxie48

My local hospital ('local' but pivotal in Oncology) is in an area where there's a substantial immigrant population.

Having unfortunately been one of the over 65s needing, at one time, frequent hospital admissions, I know from my own experience that the majority of immigrants are not in the beds- they are the ones making them. One of my 3 consultants is an immigrant. The nurses are from Spain, Italy, Poland, and southern India. The hospital porters likewise, and the cleaners and catering staff. In fact, if all those immigrants were suddenly to decamp - the hospital would have to close its doors.

We are the problem for the NHS not migrants, who actually help to keep the NHS running. In in the 70's the over 65's made up 14% of the population, now it's nearer 25%. Too many of us are fat, unfit, drink too much and live sedentary lives resulting in co-morbities that in earlier days would have sent us to an early death. We can now do so many things to improve the quality of our lives as we age, new joints, new heart valves, stents to keep our blood flowing, beta blockers and pacemakers to keep our hearts beating, cure cancer or keep it in remission etc etc . However, we make huge demands on the NHS and without migrants and a constant supply of children being born, we can neither fund our services or run them effectively. fwiw if we relied on white British to keep our birth rate up we'd be like Japan but at least their elderly people tend to be much fitter than us because their diets are better. I'm including myself in the problem as I now have a pacemaker and also take beta blockers, I've also had a couple of hospital in patient stays in 2024, the difference is I've seen who helps to keep our NHS going even in my pretty rural area and it's an eye opener.

... fewer, not 'less' (resources).

growstuff

M0nica

The vast majority of immigrants to this country are legal, the illegals are quite a small %.

Can yu recognise an illegal immigrant when you see them in the street? Can you tell who is legal and who is illegal just by looking ata them?

I often feel that righeous indignation about illegal immigrants is a mask for resentment about all those people with different colour skins and different cultures who now live in this country.

Given that I think all governments are reponsible for us needing so many people from other countries to run our economy. Proper planning, especially in the higher education system should mean that we have many more places for student doctors, engineers and structured trained careers in the care industry.

I am sure the current present situation of so many younger people not working or with mental problems, does not have its roots in the events of the last 4 years, but lie far firther back with the lack of clear and sufficient training opportunities for school leavers at every level of ability.

Or it could have something to do with the level of pay and conditions, especially for those working as care workers and the lower levels in the NHS.

Or it could have something to do with the level of pay and conditions, especially for those working as care workers and the lower levels in the NHS.

Good point growstuff.

This doesn't just affect young people and their work / future life. No-one needs me to explain that the level of commitment required for these jobs is out of proportion to the level of pay. Both employee and 'client' suffer as a result.

Investment in public services though is now looking unlikely because the barrier to it has been established as "throwing money at the problem" by those with vested interests in sucking money out of the economy. So any meaningful and rational debate on the matter is stymied - the solution of course is then to adopt the business model and do more with less. The problem is though, that we've been doing more with less and there isn't much more these public services can do, with less resources.

It's contentious to say this, but when governments run a country for - to borrow the phrase - the few and not the many, the fall-out has to be dealt with by short-term, reactive, initiatives and policies which, like the hastily applied sticking-plasters that they are, simply come unstuck.

However, that's just a personal POV.

Tiley

I have no problem with the colour of anyone's skin, I myself are brown skinned!
But if you think there aren't many migrants you obviously don't live in Dover.

There are "migrants" in every town and city of the UK. Most of them are here perfectly legally. You seem to be a bit confused with your terminology.

PS. Some of the people with brown skin were even born in the UK and are as British as I am.

M0nica

The vast majority of immigrants to this country are legal, the illegals are quite a small %.

Can yu recognise an illegal immigrant when you see them in the street? Can you tell who is legal and who is illegal just by looking ata them?

I often feel that righeous indignation about illegal immigrants is a mask for resentment about all those people with different colour skins and different cultures who now live in this country.

Given that I think all governments are reponsible for us needing so many people from other countries to run our economy. Proper planning, especially in the higher education system should mean that we have many more places for student doctors, engineers and structured trained careers in the care industry.

I am sure the current present situation of so many younger people not working or with mental problems, does not have its roots in the events of the last 4 years, but lie far firther back with the lack of clear and sufficient training opportunities for school leavers at every level of ability.

Or it could have something to do with the level of pay and conditions, especially for those working as care workers and the lower levels in the NHS.

I have no problem with the colour of anyone's skin, I myself are brown skinned!
But if you think there aren't many migrants you obviously don't live in Dover.

maddyone

Doctors and nurses don’t come in dinghies because they can get visas to come.

Exactly! They're still "migrants" though.

Tiley

I cannot see doctors and nurses coming over here in Rubber dingies

Who said they did? "Migrants" were mentioned - most of them are here legitimately with a work visa.

The vast majority of immigrants to this country are legal, the illegals are quite a small %.

Can yu recognise an illegal immigrant when you see them in the street? Can you tell who is legal and who is illegal just by looking ata them?

I often feel that righeous indignation about illegal immigrants is a mask for resentment about all those people with different colour skins and different cultures who now live in this country.

Given that I think all governments are reponsible for us needing so many people from other countries to run our economy. Proper planning, especially in the higher education system should mean that we have many more places for student doctors, engineers and structured trained careers in the care industry.

I am sure the current present situation of so many younger people not working or with mental problems, does not have its roots in the events of the last 4 years, but lie far firther back with the lack of clear and sufficient training opportunities for school leavers at every level of ability.

Doctors and nurses don’t come in dinghies because they can get visas to come.

Should have said I have no problems whatsoever with qualified people coming to this country.

I cannot see doctors and nurses coming over here in Rubber dingies

Tiley

nanna8

Our system is also crumbling, I don’t know what the answer is really. Too many people, not enough resources. When we first came here 50 years ago you could just walk straight in and get a GP appointment that day. Hospital emergency care was always within an hour at the very most. Those were the days and we didn’t even realise how good it was!

I think you have hit the nail on the head, there are far to many people living in our small island. We are lucky where I live in Dorset where our NHS is good. However, can,t imagine what it must be like in big cities with the added numbers created by migrants

Migrants are more likely to be treating you than sitting in the queue with you.

nanna8

Our system is also crumbling, I don’t know what the answer is really. Too many people, not enough resources. When we first came here 50 years ago you could just walk straight in and get a GP appointment that day. Hospital emergency care was always within an hour at the very most. Those were the days and we didn’t even realise how good it was!

I think you have hit the nail on the head, there are far to many people living in our small island. We are lucky where I live in Dorset where our NHS is good. However, can,t imagine what it must be like in big cities with the added numbers created by migrants

Our system is also crumbling, I don’t know what the answer is really. Too many people, not enough resources. When we first came here 50 years ago you could just walk straight in and get a GP appointment that day. Hospital emergency care was always within an hour at the very most. Those were the days and we didn’t even realise how good it was!

What an appalling experience Luckygirl.

Glad to hear you’re okay though.

An appalling if interesting experience Luckygirl3!

But, none of what you wrote surprised me one bit.

Because our local A&E mirrors exactly what you have just written. Almost to the letter.

But I'm glad you had a good outcome - the raised markers in the blood tests must have been worrying though at the time.

This morning I returned from a sojourn in the A&E local to the Welsh self-catering accommodation where I have been staying. I went in at about 5pm on Thursday and came out at 7 this morning. I went in with chest pain.

Here are some of the things that happened:

- Ambulance was not able to come for 3-6 hours, so the control sent a taxi to take me in. That was a plus, but the long wait for an ambulance is not good.
- when I got there I waited 3 hours to be seen at all.
- they did all the right things, but slowly.
- there was a lot of waiting around - some due to work pressure and some to awaiting the results of blood tests, which had to be repeated 3 hours apart.
- the waiting room was appalling - not very clean and rammed with people. And designed in such a way that staff had to yell to make themselves heard when calling out people’s names, as it was in two halves on either side of the entrance.
- some of the people waiting were fixed up to drips or retching into bowls and were clearly in distress and would have been better off for some comfort and privacy.
- I sat on a chair for the whole of the night.
- the lack of space meant that the doctors were carrying out consultations and procedures in the waiting room with no possibility of privacy or confidentiality. It also meant that one man had to get dressed in the waiting room for want of anywhere else.
- there was a drinks machine that only contained coke, and the water jugs were empty with no cups. The receptionist could see that (directly in front of her), but did nothing till prompted - there were quieter moments when she could have dealt with it but didn’t, until it was pointed out to her.
- there was a general air of the staff being totally inured to the suffering going on around them. One young man came in with an adrenal crisis and he was so weak that he was crawling across the floor, but the staff ignored him. I remember my DD telling me of being in an A&E recently where a young woman was lying on the floor vomiting - she had to wait for the results of a blood test before she could have an anti-emetic (makes sense) but staff just walked round her.
- taking bloods from me twice was chaotic - first of all the nurse could not find the assorted equipment she needed, then she dropped stuff on the floor and had to leave me with a needle hanging out of my arm while she went off somewhere to find clean stuff. Some of my blood dripped onto the floor (I am on an anti-coagulant) and when I returned to that room, which was in constant use, a few hours later it was still there
- now this is comic - I feel a sitcom coming on! - I was sitting in the department waiting for the next procedure and my mobile rang in my pocket - it was a doctor in the department ringing me to ask me where I was! - it was such chaos that he could not find me! He had rung my NOK (DD 100 miles away) - she said try looking in the toilet - she knows me well!

It was generally a thoroughly dispiriting experience - but with a good outcome, as it was not a heart attack (in spite of raised markers in the blood tests) and I was able to go home - well, when I had spent 3 hours trying to get hold of a taxi.

Most sad was the general air of lack of care - of staff having got to the point where they just shrugged off people’s suffering. I am sure they did not start out like that. How dispiriting for them to have got to that point.

Throwing money at the NHS is not the whole answer, although it would help - there is a crisis of commitment and spirit that also needs addressing. I am sure there are lots of very caring staff around, but the ones I saw yesterday were burnt out.

Well, the incometence continues this end. My surgery texted me today to say that they had succeeded in making me an appointment with a cardiac consultant in September, something I already have.

What I am trying to get is a 24 hour cardiac monitor. As some one up thread has said. there is no point in having an appointment with a cardiac consultant if they do not have the results of the 24 hour monitor.

I will leave it now, until next week, I am going away for the weekend, but when I come back I will reply to the admin lady and also try and contact the GP who made the original referral at the request of the hospital, sigh.

M0nica well Cambridgeshire is probably less busy than here. I think stay optimistic.
My friend who is a retired hospital consultant was very surprised by the care I had received and asked me what had I done to get so much support? For example, I was sent home with 3 pairs of hospital stockings and this is unusual.
Maybe I just enjoy the global experience!