Trainee GP concerns?

I read this week that some PA courses are accepting as students, people whose first degree isn’t a relevant science type but could be English or Geography. Im not dissing non science degrees but if this is true it’s clearly wrong

Trainee GP, Rosiesmaw, for clarification.

Marydoll

PAX!

Pax 🙏😇

I personally know of one person who has benefitted from being seen by a "trainee", she had been ignored by all at her surgery, it was the trainee that found out what was wrong with her. Another trainee diagnosed what was wrong with a patient, unfortunately the diagnosis was too late and the patient died because he was being treated for the wrong illness.

I don't get why nurses, who (depending on their age) will have done a nursing degree then had years of specialist experience in one area to become specialist nurses, are not by law allowed to make a diagnosis whereas Physician Associates are & they could have done a biochemistry degree / physics degree & then 2 years' post-grad training (2 years to cover anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, microbiology, pathology, medicine as background & then a generalist familiarity with about 20 different specialist areas such as cardiology & gastroenterology, then an overview of mental health practice, then the different considerations in paediatric medicine then actually meeting patients & history taking & NHS structures, safeguarding etc!!). They couldn't do it without relying on computer alogrithms & I do believe medicine is still art as well as a science so experience/ depth of knowledge is needed to safely use those. Not a fan of the PA model here.There's a danger some don't even know how much they don't know (as when they tell patients they are the equivalent of a GP)

Go marydoll and rosiesmaw 💖🙏🏿🫰

PAX!

Sorry Marydoll, I was being over sensitive.

Just felt that all the previous posts stating the facts were either not being read (possible) or discounted.

I think you may have misunderstood, Maw.
I wasn't meaning to offend you or anyone else. If I have offended, I apologise.
Why are people so tetchy?

We had a colleague, whose son was a consultant and a DIL, who was a GP. She thought she was a medical expert, by association. 😉

Not arguing fir a moment Marydoll, but SueDonim is I believe the mother of a GP, as perhaps many others are, I am the sister in law of another and you don’t have to necessarily have personal “lived” experience to know a fact.

I believe Mirren is a GP, who better informed to clarify.

TopsyIrene06

Mirren

At last the truth. Thank you.

Made In Yorkshire

Absolutely this. Thank you.

Not exactly “at last” though is it?
Throughout the thread people have been saying this but there’s none so deaf as those who just won’t hear

MadeInYorkshire

Trainee GP's are qualified doctors, but are doing General Practice training.

Of much more concern are the Physician Associates and Anaesthetic Associates that the last government deliberately deskilled our NHS with, and the current government is doing little to address!

This unfolding #PAScandal has absolutely nothing to do with improving healthcare access or outcomes.
& everything to do with increasing PROFIT & making it easier to privatise the NHS bit by bit.

These PA/AA's do a 2 year allegedly 'no fail' course and are being used in hospitals to replace qualified doctors (Junior Doctors ARE QUALIFIED, these aren't)

Our qualified doctors are raising red flags for patient safety, but the press are saying that there is a lot of support for them to reduce the waiting lists.

This policy is also affecting the employment of registered nurses (with an accredited nursing degree) where people who have done relatively short courses are employed instead as they are cheaper. We now have the situation where fully qualified GPs and RGNs are unable to find work in general practice.

My son is a GP and did 5 years at medical school , 2 years in hospitals as a trained doctor working different wards ( F1 and F2) then a year working in charge of a hospital on a Scottish Island with 20,000 people and then 3 years further training to be a GP . He has always been well liked and respected by his patients . How on earth do they become GP ‘s without treating people then ? It’s not as if they have just finished A levels is it ?

Had I I own what one GP failed to act on at the time I'd have complained about him!
I had some t St results which weren't improving and the trainee gp sent me for a scan which picked up a couple of other things which could have led to issues down the line, as well as what he was looking for.
Had aforementioned GP seen the test results I imagine he would have ignored them as he did the previous ones, fortunately the docs at the hospital picked up in the other things, so glad I got referred

Mirren

At last the truth. Thank you.

Made In Yorkshire

Absolutely this. Thank you.

I saw a trainee doctor a few years ago, he was very thorough, very efficient. The next time I wanted an appointment I asked for him but he had only been at the surgery for a year, they were sorry to lose him.

RosiesMaw2

Mirren

" Trainee GPS" are now more commonly known ad GP registrars for this very reason.
You assumed this is a doctor who has not yet qualified.
In fact they will be a fully qualified doctor, having studied for 5 years to get their degree.
They then train for a further 2 years in a number of different specialities and join the GP training scheme.
They are observed by their GP trainer at the practice and will discuss cases and get feedback.
They are highly qualified and usually extremely knowledgeable and up to date. They are usually cautious to a fault and take great care .
I am totally convinced you got the best possible advice and, yes , all us doctors use the Internet, flow charts etc etc etc.
Why wouldn't we take advantage of all that modern technology offers to do our best for our patients?

Well said.
How many more times though does it need repeating that GP registrars are NOT YOP Trainees, nor yet the practice GP partners’ offspring on a Bring Your Children To Work Day!

Thank you, Mirren from someone, who is qualified to clarify this.

Trainee GP's are qualified doctors, but are doing General Practice training.

Of much more concern are the Physician Associates and Anaesthetic Associates that the last government deliberately deskilled our NHS with, and the current government is doing little to address!

This unfolding #PAScandal has absolutely nothing to do with improving healthcare access or outcomes.
& everything to do with increasing PROFIT & making it easier to privatise the NHS bit by bit.

These PA/AA's do a 2 year allegedly 'no fail' course and are being used in hospitals to replace qualified doctors (Junior Doctors ARE QUALIFIED, these aren't)

Our qualified doctors are raising red flags for patient safety, but the press are saying that there is a lot of support for them to reduce the waiting lists.

Mirren

" Trainee GPS" are now more commonly known ad GP registrars for this very reason.
You assumed this is a doctor who has not yet qualified.
In fact they will be a fully qualified doctor, having studied for 5 years to get their degree.
They then train for a further 2 years in a number of different specialities and join the GP training scheme.
They are observed by their GP trainer at the practice and will discuss cases and get feedback.
They are highly qualified and usually extremely knowledgeable and up to date. They are usually cautious to a fault and take great care .
I am totally convinced you got the best possible advice and, yes , all us doctors use the Internet, flow charts etc etc etc.
Why wouldn't we take advantage of all that modern technology offers to do our best for our patients?

Well said.
How many more times though does it need repeating that GP registrars are NOT YOP Trainees, nor yet the practice GP partners’ offspring on a Bring Your Children To Work Day!

I guess the term trainee GP needs defining - one hopes this refers to fully medically qualified people and not PAs.

My dd is a trainee GP. She began her medical training ten years ago next month. She did a six year degree, graduated from med school in the Spring of 2020 and was launched straight into the Covid pandemic, where sometimes she and one other junior doctor were responsible for up to 225 patients overnight.

Since then she has worked for two years in one of the busiest A&E’s in the country, seeing all manner of ills (and not so ills) in patients from tiny babies to very elderly folks. Her current placement is in palliative care and she will have another four placements before she qualifies as a GP, by which time she will be 31 years old. When working at GP surgeries in a training position she has even had patients asking to be seen by her so I suggest that’s a vote of confidence in her skills.

Any surgery claiming that a PA is a trainee GP is misrepresenting their staff and should be taken to task.

GP trainees are not doctors in training. They are fully qualified doctors who have also done 2 years as hospital doctors before their specialism to GP work. They have to be fully supervised and pass many additional exams. One bad experience should not tarnish all these doctors.

" Trainee GPS" are now more commonly known ad GP registrars for this very reason.
You assumed this is a doctor who has not yet qualified.
In fact they will be a fully qualified doctor, having studied for 5 years to get their degree.
They then train for a further 2 years in a number of different specialities and join the GP training scheme.
They are observed by their GP trainer at the practice and will discuss cases and get feedback.
They are highly qualified and usually extremely knowledgeable and up to date. They are usually cautious to a fault and take great care .
I am totally convinced you got the best possible advice and, yes , all us doctors use the Internet, flow charts etc etc etc.
Why wouldn't we take advantage of all that modern technology offers to do our best for our patients?

M0nica

Trainee GP nearly killed our daughter.

And a newly qualified nurse practicioner diagnosed my FIL with a virus, quite rudely, but he had three stents fitted a few days after when he collapsed at home.

Hopefully the main GP trainer will review the notes but it wouldn’t hurt to check what time the doctors take phone calls and say you are concerned or e-mail if that’s how your surgery now communicates. Ours wants e-mails instead of face to face appointments apparently, though I avoid them like the plague. Confidentiality no longer exists.

Hope you manage to get someone to listen!

The last time I booked to be seen by what I thought was a GP, I was seen by a Paramedic Practitioner. These seem to crop up in many surgeries as government funding makes them much cheaper to employ than GPs.
The training for a PP is not nearly as long or as demanding as GP training.
It may be that, in some cases you were seen by a PP and not a GP.