Mental Health issues or Challenges of Life?

As I read TB's words, I think he is expressing concern at the unnecessary drain on services if people, who are not truly mentally ill, keep self-diagnosing. He stated, We’re spending vastly more on mental health now than we did a few years ago, and, as a politician, I think he knows what he is talking about. I disagree with posters who say he should keep quiet because he isn't an expert. He is an expert on how government works, and on how it only has a limited amount of money to go round, and wasting it is not an option.

Back to the lifelong 1958 NCDS survey, I dug out a bit of information in the latest report for anyone who is interested. The mention of the social and economic cost of mental health problems to the country is not to be sneezed at.
(Sorry if it's a bit fuzzy).

Tony Blair is spot on and I say that as a former mental health professional.

maddyone

Like others, I agree with TB.
I have suffered from clinical depression. It is horrible. I continue to take medication many years later because sometimes I feel myself slipping and I need to increase the medication. This often happens at particularly stressful times.
I don’t think stress is the same as a true clinical depression. That has to be experienced in order to truly understand.

I agree

We have friends whose DS has clinical depression and they have been most careful in their care for him for years.
He has now struck out on his own at nearly 50 and I'm 🤞 all goes well for him, he's a lovely man.

I think science has been getting to grips with physical things and has only now turned its attention to mental health issues. In the past people with mental health problems could have found themselves in many inappropriate institutions, offenders units, prisons, the streets because they have had trouble fitting in to mainstream schools etc. I think we need better assessments to get the right places for each person and money will be save and people will be able to give their best.

Doodledog

To show how a principle works by showing it in a different context. I’m sure you are fully aware of that.

I think what you are describing is actually anological thinking Doodledog but whatever it was meant to be the oversimplification that compares the experience of work-related stress to someone going blind makes it meaningless.

On the other hand Ali23's description of her grandad very credibly allows us to compare the path of how understanding of psychological trauma was rudimentary during WW1 when stigma often prevented adequate treatment.

WW2 brought a broader understanding of the psychological impacts of war and treatment improved somewhat. Today, PTSD treatment has become multifaceted, emphasizing evidence-based therapies, trauma-informed care, and a holistic approach that considers the individual's experiences and needs. The stigma surrounding the mental health of sufferers has also decreased.

We are now going through a similar process. Our ability to recognise conditions has increased but we are still progressing and where treatment is concerned we are often still sometimes at a between the wars level and sometimes we have got as far as post WW2.

But progress will happen. A government prepared to find suitable ways for those who are ill to ride out the search for treatment will hopefully do what is needed and, again hopefully, peoples attempts to heap stigma on conditions they don't understand but worse still, can't empathise with, will hopefully also decrease.

I think what you are describing is actually anological thinking Doodledog but whatever it was meant to be the oversimplification that compares the experience of work-related stress to someone going blind makes it meaningless.
Not quite meaningless. Many people have said they understand and agree. You don't. That's fine, but it doesn't make what I said meaningless - you just disagree.

Doodledog

*I think what you are describing is actually anological thinking Doodledog but whatever it was meant to be the oversimplification that compares the experience of work-related stress to someone going blind makes it meaningless.*
Not quite meaningless. Many people have said they understand and agree. You don't. That's fine, but it doesn't make what I said meaningless - you just disagree.

It appears that the primary conclusion you've drawn is based on a longstanding grudge against a colleague. I'd like to ask: where is the evidence supporting your opinion?

There's a well-known saying: 'Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.' This serves as a powerful reminder that harboring resentment ultimately harms the person who holds it, not the one it’s directed at. While you may be grappling with these emotions, the colleague you have stigmatized remains unaware of your feelings.

Moreover, such negative judgments can have wider repercussions. They may lead others to mistakenly believe that unsubstantiated claims result in valid conclusions, when in reality, they are likely to be biased and incomplete.

It is good to hear the more considered and more constructive ways forward from other posters.

How condescending can you be 😂

I think normal life is becoming excessively medicalised which may be due to medicine manufacturers having a vested interest in identifying new disorders.

But on the other hand, some people suffer severely with their mental health and find it hard to keep going from day to day. I've been on medication since my 20s for PTSD and major depression and couldn't function without it.

I think the idea that many conditions are now 'increasing' due to improved diagnosis is oversimplified, there is a similar discussion going on with regard to autism, and yes whilst many children would have been missed in the past that does not appear to be the whole picture. I think the same is true for mental health. What we as a society are doing at the moment in particular with regard to children doesnt seem to working in order for many of them to function in society.

Silvermagic

I think normal life is becoming excessively medicalised which may be due to medicine manufacturers having a vested interest in identifying new disorders.

But on the other hand, some people suffer severely with their mental health and find it hard to keep going from day to day. I've been on medication since my 20s for PTSD and major depression and couldn't function without it.

It could also be due to the fact that, after 14 years of undermining the National Health Service, people have simply not been caught in the early stages of either mental or physical issues.

What is 'excessive medicalisation'? If Labour can get the local community hubs it proposes rolled out and functioning, we will be treating those at the onset of any issues rather than once they have become complex - less medical intervention.

The far-right government we so recently rid ourselves of was not truly conservative; they would have been of the 'stitch in time saves nine' variety. Those who are still clinging to the previous ideology believed in the destruction of the original NHS to supplant it with a two-tier system, one that would make a very few people extremely rich.

Extremists, whether far-right or far-left, both believe in the same things: power and wealth. Trump admires Putin for how he rules Russia and would like to govern the USA in a similar fashion. Our own far-right elements want to be part of that gravy train; so yes, medicine manufacturers, in a world where you either win or you're out, do have a vested interest."

But one final warning. The far-left would be no better. Neither believe in democracy and I guess most of us would like to see us stay as democratic as possible.

maddyone

I don’t think stress is the same as a true clinical depression. That has to be experienced in order to truly understand.

... That has to be experienced in order to truly understand...

I absolutely agree with you.

It is impossible to translate into words, really it is, just impossible.

If you try to do that, you sometimes end up using dramatic terminology in an attempt to convey the horror of the condition, and that can leave the listener with the impression that you are over-dramatising.

I suffered one bout of clinical depression almost 50 years ago, and I have never been able to describe the utter misery of it. I think you become a changed person during that time - changed because your world, and the perception of it, changes so completely. You truly do live in another world. And it's a world where there is no redemption, no hope... there is nothing to cling on to. You are just floating on an endless sea of misery that can quite literally render you incapable of functioning.

Yes absolutely agree with Tony Blair.

I wish I could ask TB what he means by encouraging people to think they have ill mental health. I guess he means like asking if they are unhappy with their life, if they have problems, do they feel worthless etc. Getting them to analyse all the bad. Maybe this then opens the gates to allowing too much introspection of the wrong sort? I don't know.

And gives them the excuse they are looking for.

Doodledog clearly spoke for many posters when referring to the colleague who was seen to take the maximum six months on full pay, return to work and repeat. No doubt the colleague was feeling stressed and in the organisations that provide such good terms of service, will have been offered counselling and a supported return to work package
All good but at what stage does that individual have a responsibility to discuss a change of role during the return to work process
I’m not dismissing clinical mental ill health. I’m suggesting that Doodledog and a number of others posters will be familiar with this scenario. I too am Spartacus

Thanks, Iam.

I don’t know how many times it has to be said- of course clinical illness is different from skiving, and of course sufferers need help not censure. There are those who just don’t hear that though, and the parable about resentment ignores the issue, whilst, in a feat of astounding irony, passes the blame to anyone not happy to keep on carrying the can.

I used one example of one colleague who was not alone. In my small department there were others too. In any case it is not the people but the principle being discussed. At what point should one person’s inability to cope with a job mean they should get a different one, and how far should their colleagues add to their own workload to cover for them?

I am not the Dalai Lama, and whilst I am supportive of those who need help, I do think that a system that allows people to stay in a role they clearly can’t carry out needs review. I also think that the broader picture (mentioned in earlier posts) is one where it has become acceptable to cancel social arrangements at the last minute, and to expect the rules under which others have to operate to be bent or ignored at the mention of mental health. The system encourages self-centred behaviour, and (as we can see) falls back on the idea that everyone else has to ‘suck it up’ or be accused of resentment and a lack of understanding.

I am not the Dalai Lama.
You could let me have a second coffee before undermining my entire belief system.
You will be telling me Jkrowling isnt God next.

Sorry. She’s a highly principled and talented woman, but she’s not the Messiah😢. As far as I know.

On a serious note the use of 'lack of understanding' or overblown claims about hate and stigmatising people are just a way to try and stop people exploring a really complex issue. People have to be allowed to explore issues which might 'hurt' people, we have to be allowed to formulate ideas, make mistakes, etc.

I, too, am familiar with this scenario. Unfortunately, I have firsthand experience with the devastating effects of depression. Dickens' poignant descriptions of the condition and its impact on a person's sense of self are hauntingly accurate.

I also agree with Iam that many individuals have witnessed colleagues repeatedly taking time off due to mental health issues. However, it's essential to acknowledge Doodledog's crucial point: the actual cause of this problem lay, and often lies in underlying workplace issues, in this case understaffing. This, rather than the individuals themselves, is often the root cause of the pressure and stress placed on colleagues.

It's essential to distinguish between those who are mentally ill and the often-inadequate workplace systems that can exacerbate their conditions. While individuals who become mentally ill are not responsible for poor workplace systems, it's clear that systemic problems, such as understaffing, can play a significant role in the development of mental health issues.

2507C0

Tony Blair is spot on and I say that as a former mental health professional.

Well done you! I agree totally. 👏👏👏👏

I have been through many horrible things in my life but I can honestly say that depression and anxiety are by far the worst.

In the example that Doodledog gave based on personal experience, the poor workplace system that I saw was having a member of staff in a position that they were unable to cope with.

Rather than discussing this with the employee in question with a view to finding an alternative more appropriate role, this staff member was being supported in the wrong way and this resulted in another staff member being put under undue and avoidable pressure.

I totally agree Galaxy. This is an issue worthy of sensible discussion and accusing others of stigmatising and hate does nothing to further the discussion but is an attempt to close down the opinions of those you disagree with.

I think certain people aspire to a more senior job role, apply for and get the job, then find they just can’t cope.

Hence the time off sick and pressure on other staff.

But probably why that job role pays more and has more benefits.

It can be tough at the top, but many don’t realise the pressure until they are in the thick of it.