I think my adult daughter has BorderlinePersonalit y Disorder and

Aisha

It’s completely understandable that you want to support your daughter in the best way possible during her psychiatrist appointment. Since you have observed her for 20 years, your insights could be valuable, but it’s important to share them in a way that is constructive and respectful of the psychiatrist’s role.

A good approach is to write down key observations—specific behaviors, patterns, and concerns—so you can present them concisely if given the opportunity. You can also ask your daughter if she’d be comfortable with you sharing a short note with the psychiatrist beforehand. If you do attend the session, try to let your daughter speak first and support her by filling in details only when necessary.

Your presence itself can be reassuring, and expressing your thoughts with care will ensure they are well-received. Wishing you and your daughter the best in this journey!

Thank you.

Iam64

*what I would advise for anyone struggling is to leave your emotions out of the conversation with someone suffering from a personality disorder *
Many of the contributors to this discussion are the mothers of adult children with PDs Luminance. Their relationships are so different than the ones mental health professionals have with patients or clients.
It’s also not unknown for adults with PDs to distort or even be untruthful about their experiences.
As others have said, finding therapy is difficult but persuading the adult child to engage with it another. As for finding good therapeutic support for the parent of an adult or adolescent child - paying privately is often the only route

I agree Iam64..

Yes it was Iam64 I have never found my typing to be ridiculed before. Rather unexpected. I did try to help but I shall leave you all too it.

As Thich Nhat Hanh said understanding is love.. I hope you have many people around you, Maddy, who understand you...

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maddyone

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As someone who worked with Patients with BPD for many years I can really understand your pain Maddyone.. I feel for you...

Luminance

I think you have rather read in to comments things that aren't there or responded to the assertions of others who are less open to self reflection.
I am sure it is not paragraphs or lack of that makes people hostile to understanding the past.

Combative and unnecessarily so

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I think you have rather read in to comments things that aren't there or responded to the assertions of others who are less open to self reflection.
I am sure it is not paragraphs or lack of that makes people hostile to understanding the past.

Please, keepingquiet, don't let one person's views put you off getting help. New research is being done all the time for these disorders and there are a few great books out there which will help see that not everything is the parent's fault.

For my role in my daughter's development I can see I made mistakes but all of the decisions I made at the time were made with the best intentions. Having been deprived of my biological father and having abandonment issues myself made me stay longer in an abusive relationship. I left my daughter with a trusted person and the child of that person sexually assaulted her. Neither of us realised what had happened until much later. As the 8 year old child was family, I was trying to strengthen that relationship. I made other mistakes which probably compounded things but they were all done with love and my only mantra from conception to date was that I wanted her to be happy.
I was devastated when a very blunt support worker put the blame on me but the support of my other children who don't suffer from this helped me through. Children back in our day didn't come with a handbook or lots of information on T'internet. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing and unless you were outwardly abusive, you should not be unking to yourself.
The funny thing was that having blamed me for every horrible situation in her life, my daughter was quite uppity about me being blamed by the support worker. It was one of those moments where she could criticise me but nobody else could!

Thankyou Luminance- although I won't go back or copy because of your lack of paragraphing!

The rock bottom theory is interesting- my son has never physically self-harmed but he has certainly lost some very important things, and still does so on a regular basis. I think he has never sought help when rock bottom (even when he went missing and slept outdoors for three days during Covid!) and I think that's because he has me to help him through.

Yes, my emotions sometimes get the better of me because I'm only human and as I have said I go for help in order to help him, but there is little help for me.

I find your latest reply far more balanced. Families are messy things and yes, some children suffer more than others due to their emotional make-up and personality. He is not my only child but he is the only one like this.

You seem to be saying that parents should prepare themselves for some kind of fall-out when the patient is undergoing treatment. I would suggest this is because the family at this time is not being supported or listened to, and that their feelings are also not being validated. I refuse to accept the parent bad theory in all cases, though obviously severe abuse might have already manifested by other means.

Not everyone with BPD will have suffered such abuse, and so I suggest that family/supporters feelings should aslo be taken into account as they are the ones who will pick up the pieces regardless of whether treatment is successful ot not.

I would hate to think that if my son did seek help it would cause him to distance himself from his family altogether- these relationships can be quite fragile already and really need to be strengthened and not weakened.

These comments just make me feel less and less likely to seek help now, and we will just struggle through this together. He is already so much easier to live with than he used to be. I feel like I should have a medal for saving the mental health services time and money, and not castigated for encouraging my son to work and make a positive contribution to society and to take some responsibility for his own actions.

It’s completely understandable that you want to support your daughter in the best way possible during her psychiatrist appointment. Since you have observed her for 20 years, your insights could be valuable, but it’s important to share them in a way that is constructive and respectful of the psychiatrist’s role.

A good approach is to write down key observations—specific behaviors, patterns, and concerns—so you can present them concisely if given the opportunity. You can also ask your daughter if she’d be comfortable with you sharing a short note with the psychiatrist beforehand. If you do attend the session, try to let your daughter speak first and support her by filling in details only when necessary.

Your presence itself can be reassuring, and expressing your thoughts with care will ensure they are well-received. Wishing you and your daughter the best in this journey!

what I would advise for anyone struggling is to leave your emotions out of the conversation with someone suffering from a personality disorder
Many of the contributors to this discussion are the mothers of adult children with PDs Luminance. Their relationships are so different than the ones mental health professionals have with patients or clients.
It’s also not unknown for adults with PDs to distort or even be untruthful about their experiences.
As others have said, finding therapy is difficult but persuading the adult child to engage with it another. As for finding good therapeutic support for the parent of an adult or adolescent child - paying privately is often the only route

Usually there is a rock bottom event that brings patients to my attention. Either losing something important or an episode of self harm. The therapies mentioned above do help greatly. What I would advise for anyone struggling is to leave your emotions out of the conversation with someone suffering from a personality disorder. Give no personal information to avoid triggering a behaviour. People with personality disorders are wired wrong and lack necessary tools to cope with life. Narcissistic Personality disorder the sufferer usually hurts others because they must be above them or better than them. Borderline is more a lack of ability to think through impulses. Imagine you had a rather bad day at work and you had a fleeting thought about quitting that you are able to reason yourself past and then imagine not being able to think around a bad day so walking out. That is how it feels across the board for every life situation. I don't believe I have mentioned bad parents but life is prone to struggle and sometimes children suffer unnoticed. The depressed mother who didn't attend to all a babies needs. The alcoholic father. The messy divorce. The single exhausted mother with no support. The list goes on I am afraid. A growing brain is making many connections and depending on when the issue happened perhaps 3 unaffected children and 1 that was. It is important to understand that. It allows for empathy for a sufferer even if their behaviour is crossing lines. For children who grew up in actively abusive homes, less chance to avoid mental health issues whether that is a personality disorder or depression and anxiety or a difficult addiction. Usually one of the 3 is present. There are also more family members than a parent. Difficult sibling relationships or abuse by a different family member. It's what I see in my field all too often. Which is why it can be a struggle for a close support system to cope with when the cause is highlighted under treatment.

Luminance

It is indeed true Borderline Personality Disorder may be treated and symptoms can be addressed with medication and therapies like DBT or MBT. I suppose a good way to understand it would be to say that the disorder may be brought into remission. If however underlying causes are not addressed symptoms may be triggered. A great failing with treatment is exposure to stressors. It is difficult for example to teach someone that their feelings are real and valid should someone else be undermining that. It can be difficult to teach someone how to properly manage their impulses and think through their actions should those around them dismiss their ability to do so. As I have explained, this is where a good support system enables recovery.

Again, how are people supposed to access these therapies?

I have sobbed in GP's surgeries only to be told there is nothing they can do because the 'patient' has to seek therapy themselves. I'm the one who gets offered the counselling and group therapy, yet I am not allowed to mention that the stress I am under is caused by someone else.

It's a crazy circus because what you seem to be saying is that mental health issues can be caused by someone else?

How do you 'teach' someone that their feelings are real?

Teaching is active, not passive.

Who might the mysterious 'others' be that are undermining someone's real feelings?
Are you referring to gaslighting here?

Can managing impulses be taught? How do people access this education?

Again, you refer to people 'around them'- who are these people- family, carers, friends, therapists?

I wish I knew where these good support systems were, because I haven't come across any... and not for the want of trying.

I’ve worked closely with mh services. I’ve also known many families where there are 3-5 siblings living stable lives, with one who has displayed ‘difficult’ behaviour throughout childhood and by 13, put simply out of the control of their parents.
By adult life there’s a pattern of volatile behaviour with frequent intense early relationships that don’t endure. . Parents go on and on, bailing out, supporting, caring for grandchildren. Their adult child remains angry, blaming the for neglecting/abusing them in childhood and not supporting them in adult life. Their siblings report experiencing loving parents. They express anger that their siblings drains their parents .
When a family tree is put together, there is usually a relative who has followed a similar path.
I’m not minimising the way neglect and abuse can impact on personality and developing mental health. What is important is not to simply ‘blame’ loving parents, we must acknowledge genetic influences and the resilience shown by many children and adults despite seriously adverse childhood experiences

Yes indeed, mental health nursing.

Luminance, can you say where you get your information from? Are you a professional dealing with such things?

For example, a psychopath cannot be cured, merely managed, and unfortunately even the best management often will not be be effective, and a psychopath will still go on to kill.

The medical definition does not include "they will still go on to kill." Psychopathy is a severe form of antisocial personality disorder, a mental health condition that involves a lack of empathy and remorse, and impulsive behavior; it often includes criminal behaviour. When a psychopath acts antisocially, it will never be their fault, it will always be someone else's. My ex-husband has never killed anyone but has a medical diagnosis of Psychopathy. Mind you, some of the things he did meant it was amazing he didn't kill anybody!

It is indeed true Borderline Personality Disorder may be treated and symptoms can be addressed with medication and therapies like DBT or MBT. I suppose a good way to understand it would be to say that the disorder may be brought into remission. If however underlying causes are not addressed symptoms may be triggered. A great failing with treatment is exposure to stressors. It is difficult for example to teach someone that their feelings are real and valid should someone else be undermining that. It can be difficult to teach someone how to properly manage their impulses and think through their actions should those around them dismiss their ability to do so. As I have explained, this is where a good support system enables recovery.

Personality Disorders can certainly be mitigated and managed given the correct therapy Dialectical Behaviour Therapy.. but there you have the problem..

there are hardly any opportunities to receive this therapy and optimally it is twice a week.. once individually and once in a group setting and it should be carried out over a long period of time. (6 months to a year)

and secondly the main problem though is lack of compliance and commitment from the person with DBT.. which is often initial enthusiasm and then non or poor attendance..

It is as Monica says a very difficult condition to work with.

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Iam64

Luminance - do you absolve the adult child from responsibility

I hope I don't misunderstand. So I would not blame someone for the having of borderline disorder so I will assume that isn't the question. So that leaves us with the inarguable fact that every individual is responsible for their own actions and inaction. Of course healing together in family therapy has rather the best outcomes.

Luminance - do you absolve the adult child from responsibility