Bonkers GP appointment

Thanks Dorrain. I have done the fasting thing in the past but coudn't sustain it long term.

I also start my morning with porridge- I think the timings of your fasts are something I could do as I usually have my last meal around 7-8 pm.

I try to eat the 80% dark chocolate but it can be pricey.

I really need to get back to walking too, especially now the evenings are lighter. I am pretty active most of the time anyway.

I'm finding the salad helps me feel less hungry- I ate a small one about 45 minutes ago and forgot I haven't had any lunch yet. I even ordered a side salad as a started when I was out for lunch yesterday and didn't get any cravings.

My cholesterol and blood sugar were high. I started fasting and within 18mths be blood sugar and cholesterol dropped to a healthy range.
I eat rolled oats every morning and have a 14 to 15 hour fasting window starting around 8pm (after my choc treats) the eat at 11am.
I also walk 40 minutes at least 5 days a week.

I heard so many negative things about statins I decided to try the pro-active ideas such as fasting and walking to avoid them.
Not sure about the salad although the five a day veg rule is a good one.

Good luck

I had a FBC- that's why I went to see the GP. The only thing not done was my cholesterol so I'm having that done next week.

PS it definitely included at least some vitamin levels Iron, D etc

keepingquiet if I was in your position I'd want a base line blood test before changes.

Could you call the surgery and ask for a full blood count? I told reception that idseen Dr X and wanted to implement changes so could I have this done.

He called me back to say he had left a form at reception.
Suggested I come back in two or three months for another.

keepingquiet

Mollygo

Keepingquiet
Was your government course Second Nature?
I love their stuff. Chocolate coated things for dessert or snacks, adding cream to fresh fruit, or cream and butter to cauliflower.
Great.

normally eat without cream because it’s healthier

No- it wasn't promoting anything. They gave you info on the causes of diabetes, info on food and diet- it was very interactive and some people there were very shocked about what they had considered healthy food.

The Second Nature stuff doesn't sound at all healthy to me.

Have you looked at the Second Nature site? I really liked it and picked up a couple of recipe ideas. For so long, the public has been sold the idea that dietary fat is bad, but it isn't. From a diabetic point of view, fat has no carbs and doesn't raise blood sugar. Obviously, it depends on the kind of fat and the quantities involved. Non-saturated fat and even a small amount of saturated fat is beneficial because it slows down digestion and makes you feel full for longer, thus avoiding snacking. It also has the advantage of helping the absorption of fat soluble vitamins A, D, E and K. One of the first tricks I learnt about eating with diabetes was to have a small amount of fat with a carby food - think baked potato with cheese, toast with butter, pasta in oil. All cause few sugar spikes than potato, toast and pasta on their own.

Mollygo

Keepingquiet
Was your government course Second Nature?
I love their stuff. Chocolate coated things for dessert or snacks, adding cream to fresh fruit, or cream and butter to cauliflower.
Great.

normally eat without cream because it’s healthier

No- it wasn't promoting anything. They gave you info on the causes of diabetes, info on food and diet- it was very interactive and some people there were very shocked about what they had considered healthy food.

The Second Nature stuff doesn't sound at all healthy to me.

Mollygo

Keepingquiet
Was your government course Second Nature?
I love their stuff. Chocolate coated things for dessert or snacks, adding cream to fresh fruit, or cream and butter to cauliflower.
Great.

normally eat without cream because it’s healthier

I like the "Second Nature" plan too. I came across it online and it's more or less what I've been doing for years. I don't need to lose weight, although it helps keep my blood sugar stable.

Keepingquiet
Was your government course Second Nature?
I love their stuff. Chocolate coated things for dessert or snacks, adding cream to fresh fruit, or cream and butter to cauliflower.
Great.

normally eat without cream because it’s healthier

Trixi

I often do a salad starter and have done for years. Especially if the meal doesn't contain much veg in itself such as spaghetti bolognese, curry, etc. Our breakfasts start with some sort of fruit - grapefruit, blueberries, or even prunes. It helps keep you over your '5 a day' !

I do the same sort of thing Trixi, when I’m feeling in a healthy frame of mind.

Just a side note: no grapefruit if you’re taking statins, they don’t mix!

If you haven't got worse in ten years, all you probably have to do is tweak things a bit - nothing drastic.

I have no idea what you eat, but cut down on starchy carbs. Summer is the ideal time to eat salads. Try to move after eating - even if it's just running on the spot or getting some weights and doing a few curls while you're waiting for the kettle to boil.

I wouldn't be so fatalistic about diabetes. Good luck!

growstuff

RedRidingHood

Was it actually a doctor you saw? Could it have been someone not medically qualified?
Either way I can't see the harm in eating more salad. I suppose T2 diabetes is a result of being overweight and if you fill up with salad there's less room for other more fattening stuff.
As to the qrisk, mine is very high, not to do with cholesterol but my other health conditions. Statins seem to be emerging as beneficial in all sorts of ways so I take them.

RedRidingHood No, no, no! T2 diabetes is not necessarily the result of being overweight! I was diagnosed in my mid 30s and I have never been overweight. I get fed up with people assuming that all T2 diabetics are fat and lazy.

Of course eating more salad isn't going to do anybody any harm. What I object to is that OP wasn't given some real advice about preventing her pre-diabetes progressing to T2. Does she need to lose weight? Does she need to do more exercise? Does she need more sleep? Does she need to eat fewer starchy carbs? Does she need to drink less alcohol? How will she know whether any lifestyle changes are working?

Jessie Inchauspé isn't a nutritionist, but she has books and supplements to sell and I guess she probably earns a fair amount from her media work. It's based on dodgy science and lots of claims which just aren't new.

Eating a few salad leaves before every meal is a fad. How many people are seriously going to keep that up for life? It'll go the way all other fads do eventually - but not before some snake oil saleswoman has made a lot of money out of it.

I agree with all of this.
There is a tendency for diabetes in my family history- so one professional told me there may be nothing I can do, I may get diabetes anyway. Same with the statins- we will all get higher cholesterol as we age.

I have been pre-diabetic for over ten years. The first thing was to send me on a course, government funded that was supposed to last a few months (time to monitor change) but ended after only two sessions and I was not told why. I suspect they pulled the funding.

Then I was offered a health 'coach' at my GP. I saw her several times but became frustrated as she couldn't offer advice, only say she would support the choices I made.

The GP I saw had also referred me back to the 'coaching' but I told her it was useless and she just said well don't go then. I do wonder how much these 'coaches' get paid. They have no medical qualifications and are not nutritionists or counsellors. They have certificates in 'coaching' whatever that means.

Yes, I am mildly overweight and have become lazy and don't eat properly. This is mainly due to the enormous stress I have in my family life, but I am making excuses. I am relatively fit, but getting old and that's the reality we all have to face.

I agree the salad thing is a fad- but maybe I am feeling vulnerable and anxious and so we cling to these suggestions, for me it seems easy so I just had a little salad left over from last night!

Thank you for all your contributions- I am learning a lot!

Trixi

I often do a salad starter and have done for years. Especially if the meal doesn't contain much veg in itself such as spaghetti bolognese, curry, etc. Our breakfasts start with some sort of fruit - grapefruit, blueberries, or even prunes. It helps keep you over your '5 a day' !

But fruit doesn't count in the JI recommendations. Grapefruit and prunes are full of sugar.

RedRidingHood

Was it actually a doctor you saw? Could it have been someone not medically qualified?
Either way I can't see the harm in eating more salad. I suppose T2 diabetes is a result of being overweight and if you fill up with salad there's less room for other more fattening stuff.
As to the qrisk, mine is very high, not to do with cholesterol but my other health conditions. Statins seem to be emerging as beneficial in all sorts of ways so I take them.

RedRidingHood No, no, no! T2 diabetes is not necessarily the result of being overweight! I was diagnosed in my mid 30s and I have never been overweight. I get fed up with people assuming that all T2 diabetics are fat and lazy.

Of course eating more salad isn't going to do anybody any harm. What I object to is that OP wasn't given some real advice about preventing her pre-diabetes progressing to T2. Does she need to lose weight? Does she need to do more exercise? Does she need more sleep? Does she need to eat fewer starchy carbs? Does she need to drink less alcohol? How will she know whether any lifestyle changes are working?

Jessie Inchauspé isn't a nutritionist, but she has books and supplements to sell and I guess she probably earns a fair amount from her media work. It's based on dodgy science and lots of claims which just aren't new.

Eating a few salad leaves before every meal is a fad. How many people are seriously going to keep that up for life? It'll go the way all other fads do eventually - but not before some snake oil saleswoman has made a lot of money out of it.

I often do a salad starter and have done for years. Especially if the meal doesn't contain much veg in itself such as spaghetti bolognese, curry, etc. Our breakfasts start with some sort of fruit - grapefruit, blueberries, or even prunes. It helps keep you over your '5 a day' !

Notagranyet24

I was just about to post that eating a salad before your meal is part of the Zoe programme. I found all the suggestions on the programme very helpful.
There is a freely available Zoe podcast and a book, Food for Life by Tim Spector. He's a professor at King's College, University of London, his talks are fascinating and full of useful information.

She did mention Zoe. I used to watch Tim Spector during Covid- he talked a lot of sense.

I might have joined the Zoe programme but found it too expensive.

Yes, RedRidingHood she was a proper GP.

She admitted the QRisk thing was a government algorhythm, she seemed very tech and media savvy.

I just said I needed more info before starting statins- which is why I'm having my bloods done again.

Although they recommended my starting them she admitted they hadn't checked my cholesterol for over a year.

I think it's wise to ask questions and to question what you're told. I take my health very seriously.

Was it actually a doctor you saw? Could it have been someone not medically qualified?
Either way I can't see the harm in eating more salad. I suppose T2 diabetes is a result of being overweight and if you fill up with salad there's less room for other more fattening stuff.
As to the qrisk, mine is very high, not to do with cholesterol but my other health conditions. Statins seem to be emerging as beneficial in all sorts of ways so I take them.

I was just about to post that eating a salad before your meal is part of the Zoe programme. I found all the suggestions on the programme very helpful.
There is a freely available Zoe podcast and a book, Food for Life by Tim Spector. He's a professor at King's College, University of London, his talks are fascinating and full of useful information.

LtEve

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3882489/

An interesting research paper on this subject.
I would imagine it would be common sense to think that eating a salad before a meal would reduce subsequent intake of food. It was one of the things discussed when I did the Zoe trial.

But that's how I eat anyway!

This evening I've had grilled chicken with sun-dried tomatoes, sauted mushrooms with cauliflower, tendersweet brocolli and steamed baby spinach (no starchy carbs and the only carbs were in the tomatoes and veggies). I then had blueberries, strawberries and a dollop of creme fraiche. The biggest carb load was from the berries.

Surely most people eat their "sweet stuff" at the end of their meal. Just avoid fruit juice as a starter.

I don't understand what they mean about veggies before carbs. Veggies are made up of carbs! What they really mean is starchy carbs - quite honestly, diabetics or pre-diabetics would be wise to cut them down anyway.

If you want some common sense advice about reversing pre-diabetes, try these:

lowcarbfreshwell.com/prediabetes-and-type-2-diabetes/what-is-prediabetes/

lowcarbfreshwell.com/prediabetes-and-type-2-diabetes/how-to-reverse-your-prediabetes/

Dr Oliver isn't the most inspiring of speakers, but he talks sense. Freshwell was my GP practice before I moved and I know that following their advice has worked for me. Unfortunately, it was too late for me to benefit fully, but it's 35 years since I was first diagnosed as diabetic and I've hardly got any worse in all that time.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3882489/

An interesting research paper on this subject.
I would imagine it would be common sense to think that eating a salad before a meal would reduce subsequent intake of food. It was one of the things discussed when I did the Zoe trial.

PS. Leave out the carrot if you want to cut sugar spikes.

TerriBull

Slightly off topic, I had a book a couple of years ago, "Why Frenchwomen Never get Fat" I'm sure some of them do but from what I can remember the pre dinner salad played a pivotal role in that reasoning which would be some sort of a light green salad of leaves with a vinaigrette dressing. It's probably good advice, I think now summer is upon us almost, I'll resurrect the idea.

It depends what you eat after the salad.

keepingquite Very few of her ideas are new. As you say, she's good at marketing herself and selling books and pills. As far as I can see, she has absolutely no qualification in nutrition.

This is the 2015 study on which the salad/protein before carbs is based:

diabetesjournals.org/care/article/38/7/e98/30914/Food-Order-Has-a-Significant-Impact-on

Firstly, it's based on a sample of just 11. Secondly, I wouldn't drink orange juice or eat ciabatta anyway. Thirdly, I already eat protein/fat/veggies before anything sweet anyway. It's not the same as eating an extra salad before every meal. Is she she suggesting that people eat a salad before tucking into a breakfast of chocolate covered Coco Pops?

I'm a bit horrified that a GP would latch on to her.

keepingquiet

growstuff

Is anybody with a glucose monitor prepared to do an experiment?

I've got one and I'm prepared to eat the same things for two weeks running at exactly the same times. In one week I'll eat a green salad before my meals and test my post-eating sugar levels and see if there's any difference. I'll et you all know the results.

The GP told me I could hire one at the cost of £250 a week!
I told her I wasn't Rothschild...

As you have one I would love to know how you get on!

That's absolute rubbish! Your GP was probably talking about a FreeStyle Libre, which you attach to your arm and wear all the time.

I have a simple glucose monitor with lancets and test strips, all on prescription.

A glucose monitor is quite cheap (about £25-40 I think). The lancets are cheap too. The test strips are expensive and depend on which monitor you have. They're about 25p each and you need to decide on a testing regime which uses six strips a day (you don't need to test every day). You can buy them all from a pharmacist or online.