Black Dogs 27

The night taught me that unless I pull back from it all being so full on I will descend into depression as it is kicking at the door, you are right Doodle.
I wrote a very revealing email for the Servants of the meeting tomorrow which they will all have read. I don't want a big discussion, just for them to know why it was so bad, it wasn't "a hug that got sexual", it was the context of a very, very vulnerable person coming back to my meeting needing the degree of damage to be "heard".
(Many dont know the reality of the Ex damage, or the degree of how ill I was afterwards, how difficult even coming back the Quakers was, which made it a the event a nightmare instead of a "bad event, dealt with by Safeguarding appropriately")

After that, to concentrate on waiting for the Restorative Justice - if necessary pushing for it as it will take a long time time once the process has started anyway, as I believe it will provide some closure.

I felt those dark feelings of going down in the night so made a resolve, I'm NOT going to let myself go there. I feel very very blessed by the level of MH support I'm getting, in these days it is little short of extraordinary.

And maybe if I really do manage to volunteer for the organisation that supports women, I shall be a great deal wiser, and indeed a lot more careful what I might say.

Today is a dull day, the gym will call later and will concentrate on relaxing not working off huge amounts of anger.

Hey, wow! Our traveller.

My bucket list ambition is to go to Africa.

Under African skies

www.youtube.com/watch?v=85rr5SqrCZI&list=RD85rr5SqrCZI&start_radio=1

Wyllow3 We went to Sheringham (Norfolk) last year. MatloCk is only about an hour from us, so we've been there for days out. Just booked a week in Zadar, Croatia, all-inclusive, going on our 46th wedding anniversary, in May. Need to lose a lot of weight, try to get fitter, and get some passports.

Doodle if MrS refuses Restorative `justice he could in theory be called up by the magistrate, as it is an alternative to it, but the far more likely out come is that he is as sensitive as we all are to peer pressure and what others think of him, and Quakers currently in touch with him so he can talk through what happened and be helped to see how serious what he did was are likely to take a very, very dim view if he refuses. Me - I will see him as a hypocritical coward, frankly, the self professed "good man, acting as saviour to the vulnerable in the name of Christ?"

In the meantime I have a Quaker chat at the end of the business meeting on Sunday to give me support: this has been resolved today.

I have written the letter for that meeting and sent it out, many will not be there but have the letter so at least I know they are aware of the impact on me, for now I just have to wait for Restorative Justice to come through and the break will be welcome to get back to more normal days.

I hope the trousers are a great fit, HVDY. I recall last year you didn't go too far from home - Matlock was it? but a nice break all the same.

Sweetpeasue, that tree is lovely and sparkly and very stylish indeed. My cleaner/friend will help me put some stuff up next Thursday afternoon.

I thin small scale is just right, Doodle. It marks the season for anyone visiting, and spiritually wise, but doing the whole shebang would only bring grief.

ScaredyCat Glad you're able to read with the new, cheaper glasses you've got. I've got one eye much weaker than the other, so I need prescription ones. We fancy Croatia - have been several times before, to different parts - but need new passports. I'm now quite confused by all the different holidays on offer, so not decided yet.
Wyllow3 Thanks, I've ordered a pair in black . We want to go to a hotel, either half or full board, at the end of May. You'll have a holiday to look forward to, then, and a trip to London with your son. Like you, I prefer being close to home and familiar things. My mum was a Londoner and we used to go there to stay with my granny in Barnes, every so often. London is so different now - from the age of about 8, my brother (4 years older) and I used to travel to Picadilly, etc., alone, and spend all day looking in the shops. I hope the nice policeman rings you and sorts something out for you. I worry that this Mr A stuff will drag you down again.
SweetpeaSue What a worry for you about the car. I hope you might be able to get another one. Yes, do ring the York hospital and the vascular person. Your husband can't carry on like this. I love your little tree. Very pretty.
Doodle I'm glad you'll be spending Christmas with your sons and their families. I fancy Makarska or Split, both in Croatia. I found the perfect holiday, but the flight is from Birmingham at 7 am, meaning we'd need to leave home at 3.30 to get there for 5 (2 hours before the flight).
nadateturbe, EllieAnne and others - hope you've been ok today.

Jaffa's had cooked cod tonight - he really is so spoilt (my fault). Hope everyone has a nice sleep later x

Sweet pea sue I love that tree. Mine will stay in the loft till mid December.
My car had a hiccup today. I went for petrol and it refused to start. It did after a few minutes but I’ve started looking at cars on line.
I’ve seen one I like but need to sort out all the documents for my car and I don’t get on with paperwork!!!!

nadateturbe it’s nice to hear from you. Even a sentence or two now and again is fine. Nice to know how you are.
Wyllow yes DH and I were lucky to have some lovely holidays together. I’m glad we did them while we could.
I know you are very stressed with all that has happened to you but please be careful. I can imagine that your mind is buzzing and going over the same things again and again. I really worry that you will find yourself back in depression. What happens if the police sort out RJ but Mr A doesn’t want to do it? I’m pleased you got back to the first nice policeman again. Hope you get a positive outcome.
Sweetpeasue I’m so pleased you’re going to chase up DH’s appointment. Please really let both places know what a dreadful impact this is having on both your lives. Tell them you’re scared as to what might happen to your husband. It’s dreadful you’ve both had to wait so long.
Your little tree sounds nice. I just put some lights up on a small tree we have in the corner. Don’t want our usual one out any more. Too many memories of happier times.
Scaredycat yes you’re right the bereavement group is people at different stages also parents who’ve lost a child, siblings, really anyone who’s grieving. It’s a lovely group.
Yes I will spend Christmas Day with one son and Boxing Day with the other. How about you, what are you doing.
HVDY I always think boot leg trousers look good no matter what the fashion is at the time. Wearing boots with dresses is nice too. I m not good with dresses, haven’t worn one for ages.
Where are you thinking of going for a holiday?
Ellie Anne thinking of you as yet another weekend comes around. Hope this one is ok for you

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202511/medium-41luig-1000012846.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202511/medium-89pqjw-69288246-e2a2-4661-b894-800b98933a39-1-all-3372.jpg

Said tree.

HVDY I wear those dresses with boots. So wish I could lose weight - I feel disgusting. You've done so amazingly well and know it must be very hard.
Scaredycat Must be great not to need your glasses as much. Pleased you have such a good result after the awful unpleasantness of the procedures.
Doodle Its so very difficult for you - Im really not a fan of Christmas anyway, but its a children's thing I think ( apart from its real meaning which of course is wonderful). I think its the pressure put on everyone to be happy and share with lots of family- even when many members are missing- It just reminds us of that.
EllieAnne Thankyou for your words to me. Hope you are OK.
Nadateturbe Just rest up and thankyou for your kind prayers.
Wyllow Yes, I hear you . So sorry you're still finding the Mr A event so hard and its all consuming for you. The Quaker meetings were/are so important to you- hope you will still be able to get some peace there ,at least eventually.

Im worn out. Mentally/physically. DH is too. I keep knitting for escape but I need to sort DH out but all I see are huge brick walls. Im v tired. Garage fit some ABS system - no good but still cost another 200 . Thinks he could try new' wiring system' but we could keep going forever like that- he doesn't know really.
Picked it up today so on drive and useless. He needs a reliable car ( mines OK but old and can't rely on it) We're so tired but looks like well have to find the energy to look for another.
Calling Vascular secretary Monday to say how bad DH is and York hospital to say same.
One nice thing---- getting our tree down, too much so got a pre lit Birch tree from Amazon. So pretty.

Take care everyone and keep going.xxx

Praying with you nadateturbe

"Oh sisters, lets go down to the river to pray"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSif77IVQdY&list=RDMM&index=4

HVDY have a look at these and the sizing range which includes different leg lengths too, but act quickly.

www.marksandspencer.com/straight-leg-trousers-with-stretch/p/clp60748276?color=BLACK&extid=ps_ps-pla-pmax_ggl_ww_ch__-_UK_-_-_bau&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=20011577753&cq_con=&cq_term=&cq_med=pla&cq_plac=&cq_net=x&cq_plt=gp&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20014443268&gbraid=0AAAAAD7g6bTHIMT5hU4RFXuFTnXUiXz8a&gclid=CjwKCAiAuIDJBhBoEiwAxhgyFjE3FcuKjzJkMYCJwuhrvU-qJ_CfhHxni7z4RG5YAiiLwytHGqPmehoCJ8YQAvD_BwE

Nice to look at holidays in the depth of winter. where have you a mind to go? Cottage, hotel, cruise, what? I'm fixed up to go see my sis in Devon in march with my brother driving us down, and my sis is paying for another holiday to replace the one that was rubbish because of MrA, bless.

That makes me think of you Doodle I recall the cruises and you going, and know writing that above will be a trigger. You had the loveliest man ever x

Scaredycat it's amazing you dont need your glasses, I never thought it could be that good! May it long continue as the memory of how nasty it was fades.

As you just read sis is 7 hours drive away or pretty tough train, not that close to her (tho I long to get back on a train again and can get a disability pass so someone can come with me half price.

There is a magic proposal on the table for late March, DS and me going by train to London, just us! For 2 nights to see very poorly BiL and his cousins he longs to see them, and me BiL, but all depends on a lot of unknowns. I hate London despite the magic of such places as the V and A.

I'm a homebird who likes small cosy things....

.... but one thing Ex was good at, the best bits, were that when we could afford it, he whizzed us off to Crete as a confident traveller.
So sad, isnt it, what it came to? 😢 We also loved cycle rides and walks. I am so aware especially now, as he never did anything violent like MrA that Ex's illness that he woulnt take drugs for made everything so much worse, he would still have been a fairly controlling kind of man with a manipulative edge but able to reason with him and he wouldnt have done crazy, dreadful stuff..

Overnight I had a collapse in confidence and depression. I'm currently drugged up a bit. I had to do more stuff in terms of Quakers and really stick up for myself

..then rung Mental health and she was very nice and am seeing her next week..

but then I still caved in, took extra meds, and wrote to the Quaker lady stop guilt tripping me. Pretty much politely letting rip.

A huge risk, I expected the worst, but then after a sleep found compromise and some understanding on the table. ..but been in yet another day not dressed.

It will have to take the time it takes - obviously if I didnt have MH stuff, its wouldnt impact me like it does, but I have to work with the person I am 🙄

but tonight nice first policeman is supposed to be ringing me to undo all the confusion about Restorative Justice as he said it was the way to go before it got took off the table (and a lie it was available to me!. He was so nice and I can try and clear up the terrible mixed messages the police have been giving to Quakers as to who can say what about MrA.

Dear Sweetpeasue I hope you are reading this. do let us know how you are.

Also thinking of you Ellie Anne, and all our "occasional" ........the door is always open

Hi all
Doodle- The bereavement group I imagine is people at all different stages of their journey.Feeling sad at this time of year is a natural feeling. You will all have so many memories of Christmasses past . One day you will be able to remember and smile and be glad you made those Christmasses for your DH nd family. Can you spend some time with your GC over the holidays? Whatever age they are they never fail to lift the spirits.
Yes it’s lovely not having to wear glasses all the time but physically it feels really weird and exposed!! Did your vision just evolve naturally?
Keep warm Doodle - it’s freezing isnt it.
Wyllow- that’s a lot of phone Chat which in itself is very tiring especially when it concerns something as frustrating as the MrA problem. Is there any way you could sort of compartmentalise it and then concentrate on the things you love doing. It’s dominating your thoughts - don’t let it spoil all you,ve achieved. The Gym is such a good place for you to work out your feelings but it,s also a place of friendship and sociable chats and be yourself. I know my DH loves the Gym work but think he also loves his buddies and the time they spend socially too. Those normal times are what you need.
Is your Sis near enough to have the odd short visit - something to look forward to.
SweetPeaSue- hope you and your DH are having some peaceful times together . We all just want you to take care of yourselves and post when you are able. There is nothing you can’t say to us.
Nadateturbe- we enjoyed those posts so much and hope you,ll soon be up to it again.
HVDY- I wore glasses all the time too. Now I,m just using some cheap readers I bought to use the I pad and read etc. my old glasses were varifocals so no good now.
Online shopping is keeping us all busy I think. So nice to be in the warm and shopping at the same time😀 Think we,ve nearly finished- now the wrapping to do.😩
Exciting looking at holidays- where do you fancy?
EllieAnne- hope you’re ok today and you enjoyed your time with your friends DD.

Love to all - take care and keep warm

ScaredyCat It must feel so liberating to be able to drive without needing glasses. I wear glasses all the time, and have a different pair for reading and the computer. I love fish. My favourite is fresh tuna. DH will only eat fish if it's in batter . I'll have a think about wide-leg trousers. I'm too fat, but short. My legs are decent, though, and not fat.
Doodle I like bootcut trousers, although they're not fashionable at the moment. I sometimes wear mid-length dresses with knee-high boots, which looks alright. Christmas is an emotional time of the year for many people, and it evokes so many memories. I hope you are doing something nice today.
Wyllow3 Six hours of being on the 'phone - wow! As you said, you haven't had a normal day for some time. I hope you manage to get the results you want and deserve, soon. I'll have a look at M&S trousers, thanks.
nadateturbe Hope you have a better day today.
SweetpeaSue Thinking of you and hope you and your husband are getting on OK. Post when you feel like it. We all care.

Not going out today, so will do more online Christmas shopping,and perhaps look for a holiday for next year. Hope everyone has a decent day x

Good evening everyone. Thanks for kind thoughts. I started to draft a post yesterday but didn't get far. Had appointments today, so I'm tired.
I did enjoy those few days I was able to post. Praying I feel able tomorrow.
Sending love and wishes for a peaceful night for you all. xx

Nope. 6 hours on the phone. the plus - one of the Servants of the meeting, really really gets it the minus - police throwing out contradictory information about who I can talk about it to and also about Restorative Justice. (not available after all said another PC) having been promised it by Original Policeman.....but by that hat time - 3pm - (well I had had a nice shower in the middle) I rung the police again in panic mode and eventually (after going through why I am vulnerable and MH state) have got a call back from the Original Police Bloke from the unit not the "bloke on the beat" who had taken it up. You are right Scaredycat it has to be done.

So I headed to the gym in furious exhausted mode and it took me over 2 hours of hard workout to get it out of my system. but now at 10.30pm I'm still having to sort stuff. Totally fed up I havent had a normal day as long I I can now recall.

I went back to Quakers in mid July. thats 12 times I went to Quakers 12 times before this happened. It's now 6 weeks on Sunday.

Sweetpeasue you know how much we care. dont stop speaking up. what Scaredycat said. Its important to keep talking xxxx when you are ready.

HVDY M n S do straight leg trousers in big range of sizes?

Oh Doodle - the times I've just wished Christmas could disappear and things would "start up again normally"..the toughest time of year, no doubt about it.

HVDY could you buy a maxi or midi dress and use knee highs rather than tights. I agree, trousers now are either very wide or very narrow. What happened to the normal ones.
Sweetpeasue I really feel for you. So much worry about your Dh and nothing happening. No wonder it’s getting you both down. Love and prayers for you and DH 💕
Scaredycat yes it was peaceful by the lake. I went to bereavement group this afternoon., The service was lovely but the music and poems made me feel so sad. Christmas makes it worse in a way.
It must be amazing to be able to see to drive now. My vision has changed a lot. I don’t wear glasses to go out anymore as I can get around ok but I do need them for driving.
I don’t eat fish at all (except fish and chips) shame as dish is supposed to be good for you.
Wyllow thanks for the update in the cashmere. It’s very expensive stuff. Shame your lady didn’t turn up to yoga.
I’ve seen that thread but not looked in depth. Will try it out.
Hope you’ve had a more peaceful day today,

Hi all
HVDY- I won’t know properly about reading glasses etc until I have the eye test. But now I can drive without glasses for the first time in years- it really is a miracle.
You are right about cat cuddles - nothing like it.Jaffa will be on Slimfast soon+ he eats like a king. But Salmon is good for you isn’t it- wish I liked it.
Don’t dismiss the wide trousers especially in black - they look great with a pretty sparkly top. Then you can get away with no tights- bliss. Pretty shoes and you’re sorted!!
SweetPeaSue- you describe your feelings so well. You cannot always fix things for your DH but there are people who can and should be doing that NOW.Your tiredness comes from exhaustion both mental and physical as well as your condition. Please try and talk to someone in MH if it is overwhelming you.
Doodle- a sharp stick would come in very handy for SPS .
You have experienced so much with your DH and your advice is so sound.
It must have been freezing by the Lake but brings you peace - a wonderful place. We had buckets of rain but no snow.
Glad you have your Shaker - it’s nice when we can share ideas isn’t it.
Wyllow- maybe the Kashmiri lady was a bit nervous - hope she comes eventually.
Yes the cost of persevering over the MrA saga has been huge for you but not as much as it would have been if you had not followed your gut feelings. I hope you are getting out and about today- Gym and Coffee?
Fluffballs come in many guises . Music is soothing,emotional and sometimes stirring. I,m glad you get such comfort from it
Thinking of you both EllieAnne and Nadateturbe. Hope your day is going as well as it can.
Love to all

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cashmere is a wool from a goat, which was originally produced in Kashmir but now from other parts of the word.

Yoga: (some people have come to the UK escape the wars in the most dangerous places in Kashmir, I dont know how she got here, but she didn't turn up today, I'll wait to hear from her, I don't know much about her situation.

R Justice - both have to be there. I'm not happy having to as it were take on a part of the police service on about it, (was offered it, then the next one said no, despite the official guidelines) but the RJ woman is hopefully sorting it. Like my DocSis says, much would not have happened if I hadn't pushed through about it, and I don't like this at all. Psychologist says it is strengthening me, but the cost is great:

OTOH, it would have been worse in my head if I had just let a sexual assult pass and eaten down the anger and the sense of MrA getting away with it.

but its messy - someone has heard second hand I referred to an assult in my meeting (seeing quakers well out of it, talking about anger and guilt, a Quaker Quote on anger) and I just opened a WhatsApp that someone incorrectly passed on that I had....🙄 personally I dont think MrA has the right to anonymity once having actually admitted guilt and been to most "mysteriously disappeared" - it was bound to come out - but it aint me wot did it.

The hospice it truly a haven, Doodle - how many have been helped by being able to come back and get comfort and have others around who have lost dear ones.

I to have an image of Scaredycat with a cat draped around her neck like a wonderful scarf, what a helpful cat, I thought, but of course there is the warm lap and stroking to be considered.

I think music is my cat and my Fluffball, I'm fortunate how it speaks to me, truly, as long as I am reasonably well, it is like "an other" in my head singing to me. At this time of night, Classic FM with easy listen classics and the wonderful presenter Ritula Shah.

There is another GN thread about being awake at night actually, that I came across, with ideas about coping in the night including others who have lost a dear one. It's more practical than over revealing but nice to have there.

www.gransnet.com/forums/chat/1353563-A-thread-for-the-3-am-crew

Sweetpeasue, I understand the feeling " if I say something but miss everyone out then...." but we cant live entirely within that, or it's just stops a specially strong thought coming out now and then, we need to allow ourselves that? Your road is very hard, keep posting as best you can.

There was a flurry of snow but all gone, it's hitting just north of me, the North York Moors (you must be north of that, Sweetpeasue?) Or are you snowed under?

SweetpeaSue You've come this far - by fighting for your husband, even though it shouldn't have been like that - please keep on. Hope something is done soon.
Doodle Glad you managed to order the shaker. I don't know how to do a link to things, or I would've done so. It's been very cold out (DH said so) today. The hospice, church, and your friends are all important (your family, too, of course).

I've been looking online for something to wear for a Christmas meal out. Trousers all seem too long or are wide legs (no good for a short fatty like me). I'll probably buy a dress - but then I'll need shoes and tights (I hate tights and never wear them). Men don't have to worry, do they? . Hope everyone has a good night's rest x

HVDY have ordered my plastic shaker with spring. Thank you for telling me I’d not seen them before,
I like helping at church. They’re all nice people and have been very good to me.
Sweetpeasue oh how I wish I could prod those medical professionals with a sharp stick and get some action out of them. No wonder you and your Dh are so down. Don’t give up hope. You’ll have to keep fighting for a while. Please chase the vascular team for a date for your DH’s op. No matter how you feel if you keep fighting his cause you’ll know you’ve don’t all you can. Hope you get some action soon.
Scaredycat we had snow here this morning but it had gone by the time I left for church. Coming out of church it was sunny which was good. Went to the hospice for some quiet time on my own with my thoughts. It was very cold out by the lake so I didn’t stay there long.
Made me laugh “I’m wearing my big cat to keep warm” 🤣🤣. Good job you’ve got one each.
Wyllow I don’t know anything about RJ. Can you still have it if Mr A refuses to engage?
Good you got to see the psychologist today and discussed your meds. You’re wise to be careful of what you take and the impact on your health.
Hope you had a nice yoga session with the lady from Kashmir.
Is that anything to do with cashmere in woollens do you think?
nadateturbe hope you’re getting through today ok. Tough being tired all the time. ME is a terrible thing. Sleep well all

You are all so kind to me and thankyou for your caring words. It means a lot to know someone cares.
I think we're both exhausted and I feel bad that I can't 'fix things' for DH. I dont know how much longer he has to go through thus. He shouted out with the pain in his fingers just taking a mobile from me yesterday. Its difficult sleeping when he can't lay on his arm or his hips and he gets breathless. I'd been up 4 times before I posted .
Sometimes my head can't take the least of any awareness and feels overloaded that I have to shut down- close my eyes so Im not taking in any information.
Having to fight to talk to someone 'real'.
The tiredness is so debilitating.
Sorry can't reply to everyone . If I mention a name I'll feel like Ive left out others but you are all amazing.
Having Fluffball helped a bit today though too bad to take her anywhere.
Thankyou every one of you.xx

Wyllow3 Your trousers sound ideal for the cold weather. When I'm indoors, I wear some velour jogging trousers (Asda), which are so cosy.
EllieAnne It's good of you to keep in touch with your friend's daughter. I bet she was pleased to see you.
ScaredyCat Cinnamon buns are gorgeous. Will you only have to use glasses for reading and close-up things? I stayed in today. DH had 4 new tyres fitted on the car and had the tracking done. I've had 2 new bras and a dress (all slightly smaller than before).
Your cats are stunning. Nothing better than having a cat cuddle. I cooked some salmon for Jaffa today (I had Slimfast)

How's everyone else been?x

Hi all
HVDY- yep it’s stodge that hits the spot isn’t it. We went Xmas shopping again this morning and we needed huge cinnamon buns with our coffee. But that was a treat.
It’s lovely LG is good with animals. I don’t like to see kids who chase after pigeons and frighten birds etc. It’s not their fault- it’s such an important thing to be taught.
I,ll have to have an eye test in a few weeks time as I,ll still need glasses to read .
You sound as if your fitness is improving - you’re doing incredibly well and 19lbs is a huge amount in such a short time.
Hope you,ve had a good cosy day without too muc( housework.
EllieAnne- That must be so lonely- I,m so sorry.Your children and their families must be so precious to you.
Your friend would be so pleased that you support her DD like you do. You are a really good person.
Doodle- Ditto with your friend- not just dust but cat hair now!!
Our Family in the NE are fine thank you. So wish they were nearer love them a lot.
People are lucky to be welcomed by you at Church- such a lovely friendly lady. It’s so wet here today- did you get wet going to Church today?
Nadateturbe- what a to do!! You must have been so cold- it was freezing yesterday. Shame about your glove too- it’s never the old,grotty ones you lose is it.
SweetPeaSue- Please,please listen to what Wyllow says. She speaks from experience.Your life has been so difficult for so long but it’s still one full of love and family. Please don’t give up hope - you just need a break and someone who,ll listen and help. Sending big hugs.
Wyllow- Oh the damage that man has left in his wake. Quakers is central to your life and he’s sort of stolen it from you a bit- if you let him. I understand your anger and am sure you,ll do what’s right for you- like HVDY I wish you well.
Hope the yoga went well and that you have found a new friend.
Those trousers sound just the job- I,m wearing my big cat today to keep warm!!!

Love to all- keep warm and dry.

Sweet pea sue I wish you could both get the help you need. I know you have had help with your mental health in the past. Could you contact someone and tell them how low you both are?
We have no snow just frost. I’ve been for a walk this morning and sat in local cafe for a while reading. I’m meeting my late friend’s daughter this afternoon in costa. She doesn’t have a lot of friends so I’m keeping the connection going. I know she will do most of the talking but I m a good listener.

I'm intent on shaming him, as there is a chance knowing this man it will hit home. But lots of time to decide, as the first part of RJustice is that the people come to see me and will help me make a decision.

We didn't get frost, but have just had a flurry of snow, then more sun. stay cosy all BD's. I have 2 pairs of thick fleece trousers, from Sainsbugs, high recommended for chilly BD's they look ginormas but who cares?