Autism/ADHD

Grandson 1 has adhd and Tourettes (luckily only tics and grunts) and he cannot stop talking! He has never slept well. He is 12 now and is highly intelligent, unfortunately his writing is appalling and he can’t bear to wear long trousers or long sleeves.
He was born 2 weeks early and daughter had gestational diabetes. On birth he was over 8 1/2 ibs and very low blood sugars . I truly believe this affected his foetal brain development.
DGS no. 2 , by youngest daughter, was 2 weeks early and ended up with a emergency caesarean , I believe his traumatic birth caused his problems, he also has a speech impediment (he had a tongue tie at birth which was cut) and is very hard to understand but again highly intelligent.
I remember a boy at my school (in the 60s) was so naughty that the teachers spent most of the lessons telling him off or chasing him around. He was so bad I remember him clearly. I think children with these problems had always been around.

icanhandthemback 👏 👏👏👏

WithNobsOnIt

Mild autism also known as "Naughty Child Syndrome

Children of feckless parents who have no interest in them and can't keep the under control.

Mild autism aka known as "Naughty Child Syndrome" by people who are completely ignorant.

There is a vast difference between children who tantrum through temper or not getting what they want and those with autism. An autistic child will be overwhelmed and even when offered what they originally wanted will not be able to calm down. ND children often lack impulse control, make loud noises because of the sensory stimulation it gives them, etc, etc.

My autistic grandchild was different as a baby and diagnosed young because I recognised that difference. His lovely but first time parents had nothing to compare it with. As a 10 year old with a lot of help at home and in his educational setting, he sometimes doesn't behave as his parents would like him to. They would not escalate the situation in public but will talk to him later about sensible choices when they are alone with him. They will quietly point out what other well behaved children are doing in a gentle way which will not cause an escalation in his behaviour.
They work doubly hard to ensure their child is as well behaved as they can get him. They are lucky because they have amazing support from the school and a strong family network to help them. So many of those parents that are judged are doing it completely on their own. Unable to get support at school and have family who either don't or won't understand the problems they face so they end up completely alone. Husbands often end up walking away and those poor Mums are exhausted from coping with children who are struggling.

Lathyrus3

I think we were just more tolerant of difference, especially in education, but also in the way that people opted to live their lives. Less judgemental about how children and adults should be.

Looking back, in the village where I grew up, there were all kinds of diversity, including autism and ADHD, amongst a host of other diverse lifestyles and personalities. We just accepted people for who they were, maybe gossiped a bit and then absorbed them into the community and made whatever allowances were necessary.

In spite of proclaiming we are a diverse society, we are driven by a sort of mythical what people should be and anything outside that needs attention to put it “right”.

Is that really true? Or is it rose-tinted spectacles?

Children with learning disabilities had no right to be educated at all until 1971 (a result of the Education (Handicapped Children) Act 1970.

Schools were not required to push children through exams and less than 25% got 5 or more O levels/GCSEs. Many left school with no qualifications.

There were schooling opportunities in non-academic subjects

WithNobsOnIt

Mild autism also known as "Naughty Child Syndrome

Children of feckless parents who have no interest in them and can't keep the under control.

Mild Autism is not known as naughty child syndrome

Maybe read up on neurodiversity 🤦‍♀️

Must have got you mixed up with someone else who feels they have to say unpleasant things about me.

Lathyrus3

Oh au Ve got it now DisyAnne.

We’ve crossed swords before over phonics.

You’re the person that insists that phonics is the way and if a child doesn’t learn then they have a problem.

Whereas I think that we need to try something different that suits the child.

Maybe, if a child doesn’t act as we expect they should, it’s our expectations that are adrift.

Now which one of those attitudes is relates to the Dunning Kruger effect?

Nope. Phonics isn't something I have ever talked about as far as I can remember Lathyrus3. It's not my area of knowledge so I can't think why I would.

But do keep on digging the hole if it pleases you.

Mild autism also known as "Naughty Child Syndrome

Children of feckless parents who have no interest in them and can't keep the under control.

Hear hear!

What does lammied mean?

As a teacher, I came to the conclusion that these conditions have always existed, but that the milder forms never really became noticable in the days where there were fixed boundaries for what children might do, or certainly where not allowed to do.

Children with the milder forms of these conditions, and in some case also those with more serious forms find life easier, if there are sensible rules which are adhered to.

These must be expressed kindly and politely - no child likes being ordered rudely do do anything, after all.

It is also important that the adults teaching the child, or looking after him or her, or in any way contributing to the child's upbringing, agree on the rules and neither bend them, nor ignore them.

Simple things like ensuring that a school-bag is packed with the right books and colour-coding books, jotters and the written timetable, so for example all books for English had a red label, all maths books a blue, and so on make life far easier for these children.

Modern parenting and teaching tend to think the fewer rules the better - fine if a child is old enough to administer this freedom, but chaos is the result if they are not old enough to remember their gym clothes, lunch money, maths books, or to write down their homework is without being told to do so.

Crasymum1561

Someone once explained to me me that ADHD. Stood for Absence of Dad's Hand on Derriere (?)

That is absolutely ridiculous and unintelligent. It is also offensive.

My granddaughter has been diagnosed with ADHD and when I think about it I am sure I would have been diagnosed with neurodiversity as a child if it had been recognised then, instead of being labelled as very shy and timid. I also had selective mutism but again it wasn't recognised in the fifties.

Please do not suggest autism is in any way connected with poor parenting. Parents have enough to cope with without adding guilt to the equation. My grandson is a twin and there were marked differences almost from birth. He didn’t open his fist as early as his twin, he didn’t point and he didn’t babble. The parenting was the same and at the same time.
He absolutely hates his label and at the age of 18 will not allow anyone to know. Although struggling to find employment he will not apply for or accept any benefits. He is desperate to be seen as neurotypical. For him it is not “fashionable”.

I get really miffed when people talk about it being "fashionable" to have an ADHD diagnosis. Both my son and I had problems with our schooling where we were continually told that we were intelligent and capable of doing so much more if we concentrated better. Both of us were apparently overly sensitive according to the powers that be, hellishly disorganised and late for lessons. We coped reasonably well with Primary School but Secondary School was just a nightmare with all the changes of class, needing the right text books with us at any given moment, etc. Both of us lacked self esteem because we felt that it must be our fault that we were hopeless.
We have both recently got a diagnosis and it has made the world a happier place for us. We don't get any extra benefits (or want them) but at least we know that it isn't our fault that our brains are different so that is why we struggle more than others. We also have traits which so called normal brains tend not to have. We have so many in our family born with a genetic condition which we now know has ADHD and Autism as a co-morbidity.
I can't think of many medical diagnoses which would be so pooh-poohed by those without professional degrees. They should try walking a mile in our shoes.

It's a question that is very devisive and sets people up to be defensive in some cases. I have a granddaughter (20) who is autistic. She is on the whole at the high functioning end of the spectrum. I see children at the other end of the spectrum at work. I also see parents who think that kicking, spitting , biting at other children and staff need to be patted on the head and say never mind let's go and get some sweets. There are endless reasons and endless ways parents behave and there are many people who are happy to find reasons to excuse their or their children's behavior and are not embarrassed by anything least if all trying to gain financial benefits. Not ALL parents but some.

TheHappyGardener

sarnia the OP asked for opinions and this is mine. For context, I worked in a primary school for over 8 years which, at the time, had a specialist unit for kids with special needs and then for a further 20 odd years in the education sector as a whole, so I do have some experience!! I didn’t say ALL cases are as a result of lazy parenting, I said I thought it has played a part (as other posters who have worked in similar settings have also said). My primary concern is how integrating these children in mainstream classes is impacting, negatively, on their peers’ learning.

Mainstream schools these days are unable to offer an education to many autistic children. The specialist teachers and resources are not available. Therefore parents have to battle for places at specialist schools where these provisions are available for them at huge costs to the local authority.
For me, with 2 autistic grandchildren, autism is a condition from birth becoming noticeable around 14-18 months when the child is not developing as expected. Lots of research to support this.

Septimia

There will be children who genuinely have these problems.

However, some parents are having their children assessed as having autism or ADHD even when the symptoms very mild (or possibly non-existent) because they can claim up to £187-45 in benefits each week.

Being cynical, I think there may be numbers of children who have been labelled with these conditions simply for the money.

Your ignorance is astounding and profound.

sarnia the OP asked for opinions and this is mine. For context, I worked in a primary school for over 8 years which, at the time, had a specialist unit for kids with special needs and then for a further 20 odd years in the education sector as a whole, so I do have some experience!! I didn’t say ALL cases are as a result of lazy parenting, I said I thought it has played a part (as other posters who have worked in similar settings have also said). My primary concern is how integrating these children in mainstream classes is impacting, negatively, on their peers’ learning.

Sarnia
Thank you,my 5 yrs old grandson is autistic,never happier than when he's on his spinning chair or out in the wind and the rain all sensory. However he doesn't sleep well, can be up from 1.30 in the morning and keeps on going which means mum or dad has to be up too and still have work to go to.He's as bright as a button,can read, knows his alphabet,loves to count but doesn't like interacting with lots of people,lots of noise etc. He will come to you on his terms and the most wonderful thing is if he chooses to sit on your knee and play..we all wish he wasn't autistic but he is and will always be so,the ignorance and some comments are painful.
I would suggest if you ever get the chance to go on the autism bus ,you take it,and experience a small amount of how an autistic child's life is,we did it and both of us cried

Oh au Ve got it now DisyAnne.

We’ve crossed swords before over phonics.

You’re the person that insists that phonics is the way and if a child doesn’t learn then they have a problem.

Whereas I think that we need to try something different that suits the child.

Maybe, if a child doesn’t act as we expect they should, it’s our expectations that are adrift.

Now which one of those attitudes is relates to the Dunning Kruger effect?

Septimia

There will be children who genuinely have these problems.

However, some parents are having their children assessed as having autism or ADHD even when the symptoms very mild (or possibly non-existent) because they can claim up to £187-45 in benefits each week.

Being cynical, I think there may be numbers of children who have been labelled with these conditions simply for the money.

Totally agree. I work in a school and most definitely feel that this is the case. Some genuine need, but lots of poor parenting. It’s an easy excuse and of course, more money. The genuine cases need all the help they can get and I certainly do not begrudge them anything.

eazybee

It depends on how young the child was who sat beneath a table wearing ear-defenders, bu to me that signals a child very disturbed by the environment and clearly not ready to be there.
Children are taken very early into adult environments, some too soon to be able to cope, and are not happy. Plenty of time later to join in adult events.
I remember Prince Louis' behaviour at the Platinum (?) Jubilee, and a thread dominated by someone who kept insisting he should be 'lammied' ,I think was the expression used; her parents apparently wouldn't have tolerated it.

In pre-school.

More than happy to be out with the family for dinner, just felt happier on some occasions sitting on the floor between mum and dad or granny and grandpa whilst the adults were talking.

Would pop up every 5-10 minutes for a sip of drink and a hug.

We took our children out to dinner from babies, and our AC have always done the same.

If any of them were uncomfortable they would be reassured and distracted, if that didn’t work taken outside for a walk up and down or just to sit.

Backward?? That's an awful word to use

DaisyAnneReturns

GrannyGravy13

Lathyrus3 what on earth makes you think that people are proud of labels that mark them or their children out as different from the crowd

It is emotionally draining for all members of the family with a child or adult with neurodiversity.

Have you had to suffer the glares from fellow diners when you have a young child sitting under the table with noise cancelling headphones on, or with an iPad in front of them throughout the meal. Both these examples are coping mechanisms y the way, not just lazy parenting.

It's the Dunning-Kruger effect GrannyGravy13

The Dunning-Kruger Effect is a cognitive bias in which people wrongly overestimate their knowledge or ability in a specific area. This tends to occur because a lack of self-awareness prevents them from accurately assessing their own skills.

What a crap place. Gransnet is sometimes…..l..l.