Autism/ADHD

I think it's worth mentioning that older generations who were undiagnosed and didn't have access to diagnostic tools often self medicated and developed varying degrees of addiction and I don't think this is unusual even in 'todays' emerging undx cohort. It's all very complex and trauma is involved too.

I remember someone at school was sent to a the 'naughty boys school' and then was reintegrated into mainstream for secondary. He was adopted and as an adult I can recognise that was most probably trauma, attachment, maybe parental addiction. We are evolving as a species, it is good to recognise how we can support young people (and even older people) how to deal with their own dx and how to regulate and be as productive and happy as they can be. I really can't see how it is a problem to have a dx

I suppose we might not all be evolving

Evolution hasn't happened quickly has it? Neurodevelopmental variation is passed on if it is an advantage. If we are slow to recognise those advantages they are less likely to be passed on.

Also, what is normal?

It’s passed on whether it’s an advantage or not actually.Being neurodivergent isn’t an advantage, far from it.It can mean a miserable life for many parents and children, and a lifetime of being at odds with the world.

DaisyAnneReturns

Evolution hasn't happened quickly has it? Neurodevelopmental variation is passed on if it is an advantage. If we are slow to recognise those advantages they are less likely to be passed on.

Also, what is normal?

Did you read the article I posted on page 5 DAR? I found it fascinating. (I worked extensively with children with autism and have a grandson on the spectrum).

Oreo

It’s passed on whether it’s an advantage or not actually.Being neurodivergent isn’t an advantage, far from it.It can mean a miserable life for many parents and children, and a lifetime of being at odds with the world.

Any life can mean a miserable life for parents and children. But being neurodivergent is not by definition a recipe for unhappiness, especially if that child is born into a neurodivergent family.

As for a lifetime being at odds with the world, that is in fact one of the best things about being neurodivergent.Once you realise you are an oddity, the one who is permanently out of step with everyone else, it frees you from feeling any need to be in step. Once I realised that everything I did or said was at variance with other people, I just got on with life. of course it had its problems, but I had other things happening in my childhood that caused me far more problems than being neurodivergent.

I am sorry Oreo that neurodivergence made your childhood so miserable and you were uncomfortable being at odds with the world, but not every neurodivergent person experiences this.

Of course it has down sides, but again, that applies to any life

In the age that we are moving into I believe functioning neuro diverse people will come into their own.
I have a lot of interaction with a 12 year old autistic savant.
His party piece is that he can answer any question on every aspect of every Disney film that was ever produced.
He also has another skill He can get into any tech device you give him without finger/ face recognition 😱
His poor mother is on constant alert.

petra

In the age that we are moving into I believe functioning neuro diverse people will come into their own.
I have a lot of interaction with a 12 year old autistic savant.
His party piece is that he can answer any question on every aspect of every Disney film that was ever produced.
He also has another skill He can get into any tech device you give him without finger/ face recognition 😱
His poor mother is on constant alert.

petra. The autistic person you know is exceptional. In other words the majority of neurodiverse people are not remotely like that. In fact a disproportionate number of people with autism also have a learning disability. precise numbers are still discussed, but it could be that one third of all people with autism also have a learning disability.

If your neural diversity is dyspraxia, then a lot of technology can be physically difficult to use.

I do not think people with any form of neural diversity want to be seen as only consisting of people with quite exceptional gifts, or diabilities but as part of the ordinary population but with some specific problems that may need specialist help.

There is a tendancy at the moment to see 'neural diversity' as being autism and/or ADHD, but it covers a wide range of problems including dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia

No group, certainly not those with neurodiversity, want to be seen only in terms of the qualities, taalents or problems of those at the extreme ends of the range.

Mamie

DaisyAnneReturns

Evolution hasn't happened quickly has it? Neurodevelopmental variation is passed on if it is an advantage. If we are slow to recognise those advantages they are less likely to be passed on.

Also, what is normal?

Did you read the article I posted on page 5 DAR? I found it fascinating. (I worked extensively with children with autism and have a grandson on the spectrum).

I missed that Mamie. I'll have a look.

Monica, it is strange but my autistic DGS is dyspraxic and has trouble with zips, opening bottles, using cutlery, tying shoelaces, handwriting etc. yet is fine with using a mouse.

Nandalot

*Monica*, it is strange but my autistic DGS is dyspraxic and has trouble with zips, opening bottles, using cutlery, tying shoelaces, handwriting etc. yet is fine with using a mouse.

I am OK with a mouse, but tying shoelaces( i am a velcro only person now) and handwriting and in childhood, plaiting my hair. DH will not watch me doing anyting manual because, although I can get there in the end' watching the process causes him agonies. He is an extremely dexterous person.
Do not start me on mobile phones or even tablets.

I have a desktop laptop, if you see what I mean, with a proper keyboard, with keys that need to be depressed individually. Unfortunately nerve damage at the top of my spine is affecting my fingers. I have numbness in the tips of some fingers and odd little finger spasms mean, at times I type the same letter twice instead of once. Put that together with the problems of sequencing caused by dyspraxia. To misquote the famous Morecombe & Wise sketch - I type all the right letters, just not in the right order.

Nandalot

*Monica*, it is strange but my autistic DGS is dyspraxic and has trouble with zips, opening bottles, using cutlery, tying shoelaces, handwriting etc. yet is fine with using a mouse.

Dyspraxia and autism can go hand in hand. It's the same with dyslexia and autism.

petra

In the age that we are moving into I believe functioning neuro diverse people will come into their own.
I have a lot of interaction with a 12 year old autistic savant.
His party piece is that he can answer any question on every aspect of every Disney film that was ever produced.
He also has another skill He can get into any tech device you give him without finger/ face recognition 😱
His poor mother is on constant alert.

I watched a programme a few years ago on Silicone Valley in the US. The huge tech companies love neurodivergent staff. By their very nature they love routine so if they are due to start work at 9am they are at their desk, not strolling in from the car park. Their lunch hour is just that, an hour and they are not packing away 15 minutes before the end of their shift. More importantly they have an almost obsessive knowledge on the work they do. Model employees really.

Neuro diversity is rather like auto immune conditions. These things can be late to diagnose and rarely travel alone.

M0nica

Oreo

It’s passed on whether it’s an advantage or not actually.Being neurodivergent isn’t an advantage, far from it.It can mean a miserable life for many parents and children, and a lifetime of being at odds with the world.

Any life can mean a miserable life for parents and children. But being neurodivergent is not by definition a recipe for unhappiness, especially if that child is born into a neurodivergent family.

As for a lifetime being at odds with the world, that is in fact one of the best things about being neurodivergent.Once you realise you are an oddity, the one who is permanently out of step with everyone else, it frees you from feeling any need to be in step. Once I realised that everything I did or said was at variance with other people, I just got on with life. of course it had its problems, but I had other things happening in my childhood that caused me far more problems than being neurodivergent.

I am sorry Oreo that neurodivergence made your childhood so miserable and you were uncomfortable being at odds with the world, but not every neurodivergent person experiences this.

Of course it has down sides, but again, that applies to any life

Whoaaaa! Steady on, I have no experience of autism or ADHD, am certainly not neurodivergent and had a wonderful happy childhood, albeit with not much money around.
I have watched documentaries on the subject and listened to parents on the radio about how hard and in some cases awful that life with an autistic child can be.Of course it’s a wide spectrum and all autistic kids are different but some families do lead hellish lives with little or no outside support .Getting a child into the right education is a battle that wears parents out.

Monica you surely must realise that there are many levels of neurodiversity and you coped, maybe at a neurotypical school but very many cannot.There seems to be too few schools to take those that cannot manage at their local school and are bullied horribly.
Can you imagine being the Mum of a screaming son or daughter that calls you every awful name under the sun, hits you and throws furniture? Meltdowns like that can be everyday occurrences for some families.
Being the parent of a child who is never invited to a birthday party or has any friends.
It isn’t like this for all families of autistic kids but there are many instances of this kind of thing.

All governments have let down parents and children by not having enough help in place, especially by not providing enough schools for autistic children who cannot cope at the school primary or comp in their area.It’s a problem that’s never sorted out.

Oreo you are quoting the extremes and I have always made it clear, I am talking about the majority not the minority and my experience extends beyond just family knowledge.

Neurodiversity extends well beyond autism, nut most of the time all people talk about the extremes of ADHD and Autism.

I am talking about the run of the mill majority.

But the extremes who cannot manage at neurotypical schools are more than you think, and it affects their adult life as well and their ability to get and keep a job.Even for high functioning autism.
If the problem with being neurodivergent was only having a few strange or endearing little quirks it would be ok, but sadly it isn’t.

I think the problem is there is a chasm between the two groups, and the 'autism is a joy' is incredibly difficult for families of children who will never live independently to hear. I have seen it in support groups and it is very difficult.

It's a funny ole world this brain of ours.. I do believe there's many factors to why..
Years ago most were locked up for not conforming to the 'norm'

We classed it a naughty

Children masked it more.

We as a nation just didn't know about these diagnosises back in the day.

Today I do believe alot is all entangled, if the behaviour was separated from the need the need isn't as great as once thought, lots of parents use the diagnosis as the reason they behave like this, but this doesn't have to be the case.

I know parents who desperately want their children to have a diagnosis, I know parents who don't want the label etc,

keepingquiet

It used to be a stigma- now it's a fashion.

The number of severely autistic children has remained constant- the ones who need high levels of specialist care are being disregarded in favour of private assessments that show children with moderate autism traits.

Wow! What a cruel observation.
Autism like Downs and other conditions has many levels. I have 2 autistic grandchildren. Neither of them severely autistic, thank goodness but neither of the able to access an education at mainstream schools as the specialist teachers and resources are just not there.
Both are in specialist education following private assessments and they have both benefitted from the teaching and resources available at these types of schools.
For you to call moderate autism a fashion is such a hurtful statement for those families who struggle with autistic children whatever level they happen to be. Shame on you.

There is a gap in state schooling for high functioning children who need specialist support. There are a few specialist ASD units but far too few. State Special schools (places in short supply) are aimed at either moderate or severe/ profound learning disabilities, but many of the children have other neurodiversity in addition to their learning disabilities.
Our son has ( severe) learning disabilities along with ASD so was eventually educated within the special school system and after the many years of struggling to get a statement I felt both exhausted relieved- but also fortunate! I’d heard other parents at support groups with more academically able ND children struggling because there really was no suitable local state schooling for their children. Many of these parents had to educate their children at home - with all the stresses that causes! I realised early on I could not survive 24/7 alone so felt lucky there was at least semi suitable schooling. My son had to start school in main stream where his needs were unmet, his safety and happiness compromised and his development and behaviour regressed. It was a terrible time for us all despite the local schools excellent SENCo, a reduced timetable and efforts. Once in special school he mostly thrived. He is an adult now ( living with us) but will never be independent so the work now is to provide for his future support.

Oreo

But the extremes who cannot manage at neurotypical schools are more than you think, and it affects their adult life as well and their ability to get and keep a job.Even for high functioning autism.
If the problem with being neurodivergent was only having a few strange or endearing little quirks it would be ok, but sadly it isn’t.

I am not suggesting being neurodivergent is just a few and engaging little quirks. i have lived it all my life and it is anything but that, but that does not necessarily mean that the child therefore should be drugged and made to feel even more out of kilter because everyone is treating them differently from other children,

there is a narrow line between enabling a neurodivergent child to fit in with others and selecting them out and officially stamping them as different.

We also need to realise that there is more to neural divergence than just ADHD and autism. There is dyslexia, dyspraxia, discalculia, dysgraphism. There is also a higher incidence of other conditions among neurodivergent people. The incidence of learning difficulties among autistic children is much higher than among other children. OurDGS has disautonomia, a disorder of autonomic body systems that control breathing, heart beat and associated automatic body systems. One weekend he will go on a 20 mile trek with the scouts, the following weekend, watching a football match will so exhaust him he will go home and sleep for 5 hours.

The problem is people keep hitting on one or two aspects of neurodivergency and do not look at the whole picture. For a couple of decades dyslexia was all the rage and every other child had it. Now is the turn of ADHD and autism. leave it a few more years and everyone will get worked up about dyspraxia and every other child will have it.

What neurodiversity needs to do is sink baack into the back ground for a bit, so that the whole subject can start to be seen as a whole, not just one fashionable aspect of it picked out for special attention.

Well the OP is right about the increase in the numbers of children with ADHD or autism and I am not sure that better diagnosis is the whole answer.

It may be that the diagnosis is now being applied to some children with less extreme forms of the condition than formerly.

I think we need to tackle ( i.e spend more money on) conditions in schools so that there are enough classroom assistants to be placed where needed and primary schools in particular are spacious enough.

It would be valuable to know whether these conditions are more observable in children who have spent many hours a day in nursery since early infancy.

It is hard to accept that there has been a significant increase in the numbers of infants born with a difference in the wiring of their brains. Why would there be? Which means that in some cases it may be developmental.