Shame on you, Scottish Parliament

Allira

^Additionally I know many people given 6 months to live who’ve then gone on for several years some even outliving their consultants.^

Yes, I do realise that but when it is inevitable and obviously near the time should we not have the right to choose?

That may well be the case Allira but it doesn't mean the person with the terminal diagnosis had a good quality of life. They may have lived longer than expected but not necessarily pain or symptom free.
As others have said sadly good palliative care is not available to all. In fact many hospices are reducing services and beds due to lack of funding. I don't think there is a hospice service here in France.

In older days when doctors used their discretion they sometimes took it upon themselves to administer easy death. I have hearsay evidence of this happening. (One from an old retired nurse, and one from a recently retired geriatrician).

Now that doctors are more scrutinised dying people need to be able to choose their own manner of dying. Assisted dying is not a matter of IF you die---that you are dying is a certainty---it's a matter of how you choose to die.

It's so hard to know what to think. I'm torn. I was initially in favour of it but was put off by listening to others. I suppose people have always been quietly 'seen off ' by sympathetic medics but that's pretty worrying too. I'm thinking of Harold Shipman here.
There should certainly be widely available palliative care and maybe this bill's discussions will lead to this?

Smileless2012

I agree MayBee. Access to good palliative care isn't available to everyone due to a lack of funding, so no one can be sure there will be a bed available in a hospice until the time comes.

The Assisted Dying Bill takes away the fear that many with a terminal diagnosis have of the nature of their death and whether or not they actually go through with it, just knowing that they can if they want too, can bring some peace.

Yes, totally agree. Last year, my FiL died at the age of 98. He was mentally still very sharp, but becoming more and more frail - and more and more miserable since my MiL died two years before. He'd simply had enough. He was determined not to be here for the second anniversary of her death, and so he simply 'turned his face to the wall' as the old saying goes and stopped eating.
Watching him wasting away over a three-week period was torture on the family as well as agony for him. He was in so much pain and there was nothing anyone could so to help. No human being should suffer like that.

Additionally I know many people given 6 months to live who’ve then gone on for several years some even outliving their consultants.

Yes, I do realise that but when it is inevitable and obviously near the time should we not have the right to choose?

Oreo

Smileless2012

I agree MayBee. Access to good palliative care isn't available to everyone due to a lack of funding, so no one can be sure there will be a bed available in a hospice until the time comes.

The Assisted Dying Bill takes away the fear that many with a terminal diagnosis have of the nature of their death and whether or not they actually go through with it, just knowing that they can if they want too, can bring some peace.

Exactly this

I agree.

This is a very disappointing result.

Many years ago I helped organise a conference in Bristol on the care of the dying, attended by several speakers, including Dame Cecily Saunders who highlighted the lack of palliative care. Following this the first hospices were set up. This is where more funds need to be concentrated.

The Scottish parliament, quite rightly, imo were concerned about the vulnerable. In Denmark young people with mental health problems have been able to opt for assisted dying. The vulnerable could be coerced as in altruistic suicide where elderly Inuit went out into the snow to die to avoid being a burden. This is the slippery road and any bills need to be watertight. A friend of mine supports the bill because her mother committed suicide ( btw why is it now death by suicide?) but her mother would not have been able to apply for assisted dying.

Additionally I know many people given 6 months to live who’ve then gone on for several years some even outliving their consultants. It is a dangerous road. The next step on is why shouldn’t any of us have the right to assisted dying if we decide for whatever reason we wish to leave this world?

Lathyrus3

There are certain conditions where even the very best palliative care cannot ease the suffering, mental and physical.

It’s a fact that people, perhaps especially those medics who have made palliative care their specialism, try to fudge. Maybe because they see it so much it becomes normal to them.

Suicide is no long criminal, but it is difficult to do. To be certain, without involving somebody else in some way.

There's no getting away from these three statements, as far as I can see, due to my life experience.

My dad suffered a long, drawn out, painful and fearful death over years, and really needed to be let away from his suffering.

He had no hope for recovery in those days, needing a heart and lungs. Every breath was an agony and too big an effort both for him, and to watch.

He was also incapable of much movement and therefore killing himself was not an easy option. Eventually, he asked me (as a young woman), to please try and get him a gun so he could do it himself.

He was that desperate, and of course I could not do that and was left feeling like I had let him down in his time of great need.

I hope and pray that in the not too far-distant future, the option of assisted death becomes available to those in this type of situation, where palliative care would just prolong the agony.

Rosie51

Cossy

It should be up to each individual to choose when, where and how they die, under strict conditions

And it can be just as long as you don't want to involve other people in the process. Suicide has long been decriminalised.

Surely you realise this is just not true Rosie51? How does an elderly, infirm person who wants to die commit suicide? There is no way to do it without knowing that you won't:
a) botch it up and end up in a worse state than before
b) leave a horrifying scene for friends and family to discover
Asking for help could potentially commit that person to a jail sentence.

My MP has said that he is against assisted dying because the way things stand, if family help a person to end their life they are rarely prosecuted and he thinks things should remain like this!

I am very disappointed at the Scottish vote and really hope that the House of Lords aren't allowed to scupper the legislation in England.

I’m not opposed to assisted dying per se, but I think there need to be safeguards. What is happening in Canada is horrific.

There are certain conditions where even the very best palliative care cannot ease the suffering, mental and physical.

It’s a fact that people, perhaps especially those medics who have made palliative care their specialism, try to fudge. Maybe because they see it so much it becomes normal to them.

Suicide is no long criminal, but it is difficult to do. To be certain, without involving somebody else in some way.

I can see this from both sides. If a person feels their life has become intolerable then they may want it to be ended.
I wonder, though, if someone may opt for assisted dying to stop their family suffering even if they would prefer to leave it to nature.

Hospices are struggling. Our local one has had to cut many of its services. If they were fully funded, by central government, many of those who are dying would be better looked after, with less strain on the family. Also, there is the question of coercion, whether overt or implied, of disabled people. But I do understand the argument on the other side.

Smileless2012

I agree MayBee. Access to good palliative care isn't available to everyone due to a lack of funding, so no one can be sure there will be a bed available in a hospice until the time comes.

The Assisted Dying Bill takes away the fear that many with a terminal diagnosis have of the nature of their death and whether or not they actually go through with it, just knowing that they can if they want too, can bring some peace.

Exactly this

During the recent vote in Jersey we saw an interview with a doctor who had MS and who was vehemently opposed.
He said, twice, that he had spent all of his career "making people live longer'. I believe that medics with this attitude are not necessarily acting in their patient's best interests. Without excessive medical intervention my father would have died 5 years before he did and those last 5 years he was desperately unhappy.
I don't want to be "made" to live longer when I have had enough of living - even if I do have good palliative care.

I agree MayBee. Access to good palliative care isn't available to everyone due to a lack of funding, so no one can be sure there will be a bed available in a hospice until the time comes.

The Assisted Dying Bill takes away the fear that many with a terminal diagnosis have of the nature of their death and whether or not they actually go through with it, just knowing that they can if they want too, can bring some peace.

This was a vote of conscience, which was the right thing to allow. I would not vote for assisted dying, at present.
Too many imponderables to be investigated first.

I'm conflicted. I was with a dying friend in her last days and she suffered terribly, however she clung to life and wouldn't have wanted assisted suicide. My mum often said she didn't want to be here but she had dementia and delirium so it was hard to know did she mean life or the hospital. Eventually she stopped eating so it was suicide of a sort. I don't think it's an easy decision to make, either way

So if this is the case surely hospices should be fully funded and not have to rely on charitable donations?

Very disappointed with the result.

My friend has advanced dementia, double incontinent. Her husband still looks after her at home. If only she could pass away peacefully.

Of course I realise that people with dementia would not be included in those eligible, but I think they should be.

It all comes down to good palliative care which is sometimes lacking.

Am on the fence about this. Are compelling arguments on either side. I would like to think that I would have the choice of whether to suffer or die if I had a terminal illness. But the family are staunchly opposed and think that where there is life there is hope and with good palliative care a person can have some quality of life for some of the time left.
But navigating the NHS for my DH who had a massive stroke it does not inspire me, so am not at all sure it would be able to provide said palliative care effectively.

Cossy

It should be up to each individual to choose when, where and how they die, under strict conditions

And it can be just as long as you don't want to involve other people in the process. Suicide has long been decriminalised.

I am relieved.

Yep. I totally agree with euthanasia in certain circumstances. Must meet strict criteria though.