Vegan/Plant based.

P.S it's my wedding anniversary and I'm going out shortly to enjoy an evening and not think for a moment of illogicality of meat eaters/omnivores when faced with those who are different and who won't stand to attention and answer for their difference. What a relief.

I hope you don't suffer vertigo from the lofty heights of your moral high ground...

ViceVersa

I hope you don't suffer vertigo from the lofty heights of your moral high ground...

Since when has ignorance and seeking enlightenment been a high moral ground?

In the end, all these objections and nitpicking arguments about the illogicality of vegans (or their inability to be completely pure) is really not an argument for the industrialised farming of animals who then have a short life of suffering and a violent death. I’m not a vegan, I don’t claim any moral high ground, but I don’t see how anyone can argue for the way we view and treat animals for food.

Actually no ghtiwk I think I have argued repeatedly for the benefits of mixed traditionally farming and Monica has argued for a n -industrialised way f farming animals, specifically naming Pasture for Life and explaining how it works.

I don’t think I’ve seen one post that supports industrial arming of animals.

I have expressed enormous concern about industrial, artificial crop growing and the increased need for that which an increased vegan take up would demand.

It would give me heart to think that people were prepared to at least think about these things and would accept that others gave a right to ask if statements like ‘better for the planet” are actually true. If the evidence I found had confirmed that I would have agreed with it, as I did with the information on water use.

Because that was not what I found ( amongst other mantras that did not hold up to investigation) and posted what I did find a stream of invective was suddenly loosed with unpleasant personal comments to me and others.

I’m sorry you dismiss documented concerns for the welfare of all species as “nit-picking”.

The term human (derived from homo) originally just identified our species. A species with the physiology, dentition and digestive system of an omnivore, designed to consume both plants and flesh.

So to answer your question, to be human is to be an omnivore.

I tend to think nearly all foods are plant-based. Beef, for instance, is grass that a clever machine called a cow has turned into such a very nutrient-rich food for animals like us who can't digest grass.

I recently saw "plant-based spread" in a shop and thought: but butter is plant-based too if you think about it - herbage that's been through a milch cow.

I eat meat, but the problem with that thinking Baggs, although you're right in a very broad-based way, is that eating beef requires 11 times the plant mass to provide us with the same amount of nutrition, compared to eating plant mass directly. I don't know what the ration is for plant-based spread, as some nutrition must be lost in all that processing, but surely less.

"Meaty People" are not intolerant we don't care what others eat it's the Vegans who won't accept that and keep banging on how much better they are.

It's not enough for them to have an eating disorder they have a personality disorder as well.

Granatlast007

P.S it's my wedding anniversary and I'm going out shortly to enjoy an evening and not think for a moment of illogicality of meat eaters/omnivores when faced with those who are different and who won't stand to attention and answer for their difference. What a relief.

I’ve just been out to enjoy an evening and not think for a moment of illogicality of vegans when faced with those who are different and who won't stand to attention and answer for their difference.
Definitely a relief !

Years ago, my friend asked me why I don't eat sausages.
I said I'd heard they were made from all the bits and bobs left, once a carcass has been cut and jointed.
Nostrils, lips, bums, and things like that.

She thought for a second or two, shrugged, and said "I'll eat anyone's arse if it tastes good"

Granatlast007

Rosie51

Who's doing the stereotyping and battering now Granatlast007? And shouting doesn't make your point more valid.

Are you seriously trying to link being omnivore (I don't believe there are many, if any, exclusively meat eaters) with being liable to be an abusive human to animals and other humans? Do you honestly believe vegans and vegetarians are exempt from abusive behaviour? Charles Manson observed a vegetarian diet at times. Perhaps he only committed atrocities when he was partaking of meat?

Quite simply Rosie yes but why should I waste my valuable time finding the research to 'prove' to you something that is a known fact which you'll deny anyway. Try googling.

And the reason people shout as you call it is because they don't like being attacked. Try being reasonable.

If you had the evidence that vegans never display abusive behaviour then I'm quite sure you'd post it. I find that a ridiculous assertion, just as ridiculous as if I say
it is a known fact that omnivores are always the kindest, most caring people but I shan't waste my valuable time providing evidence as you'll deny it. Try googling.

I don't think I've been unreasonable.

nightowl

In the end, all these objections and nitpicking arguments about the illogicality of vegans (or their inability to be completely pure) is really not an argument for the industrialised farming of animals who then have a short life of suffering and a violent death. I’m not a vegan, I don’t claim any moral high ground, but I don’t see how anyone can argue for the way we view and treat animals for food.

I agree with this. I always pay a premium to be sure the meat I buy has had a properly free ranged life, under the best conditions. No antibiotics or hormones. Or wild hunted. I don't like the idea of killing animals at all but that's nature. Veganism is my ideal but it doesn't work for my family. While ideal, I don't think it's natural. As mentioned before, it has been tried in my family and had to be given up for health reasons.

I support veganism and will often eat vegan when eating out, if I can.

The only problem I have with veganism is those who extend that to their pet dogs and cats. That is animal abuse, as far as I am concerned. Dogs and cats need to eat meat.

I'm pretty sure dogs can get by without meat as long as they have other protein sources, but meat is the preferred source. Cats are obligate carnivores as they are not able to synthesise enough taurine in their bodies to stay healthy. Natural taurine is only available from animal flesh.

What I find hard to understand is why would anybody be happy to have animals farmed to feed pets but not humans? Humans are natural omnivores, our teeth and digestive systems are designed for a mixed diet. That's not to say people shouldn't have an absolute choice of deciding not to eat meat, fish or dairy.

Or why they are not protesting about animals farmed to provide pets for humans.

Every puppy, kitten, rabbit, whatever that is purposely bred to provide a pet is being farmed.

I suppose the illogicality is because, being animal lovers, vegans want to have pets.

Some people don't keep pets out of principle.

I dislike the way humans treat animals on the whole, but I don't believe it's natural to be vegan. In nature, we'd be hunting. Being able to be vegan is a luxury of modern life. I accept that nature is brutal, however I do all I can to make sure I am getting meat from wild hunted or humanely treated sources.

Dairy is the one I question the most. Milk is designed for babies. I am not a calf. Milk shouldn't be necessary for me as an adult human. That's not to say I never have it, just not very much.

Please can I just add that some people are vegans and nobody can tell and nobody knows.

Just as some people are Christian or Accountants.
🤷‍♀️

Nobody would necessarily notice unless the topic came up somehow.

Absolutely, NotSpaghetti. I'm a non meat eater, and a Christian. My friends and family know this, and casual acquaintances only learn this if the conversation arises.
I have no problem with other people in my life being agnostic, atheist, or Druid: eat meat, fish,or are fruitarians.
However, David is clear that my food choices indicate an " eating disorder" and a " personality disorder": but meat eaters aren't judgemental at all, are they?

No, I am not judgemental. We all make our choices, but I am always interested in understanding why people make certain choices and ready to talk about why I make mine.

I am not expecting everyone's reasons to be rational. I know I make decisions that appear irrational to others - and to me!

NotSpaghetti Note that this thread was started by a virtuous vegan

I was just making an observation M0nica.

I do know that all sorts of people can be irritating too!

David49

"Meaty People" are not intolerant we don't care what others eat it's the Vegans who won't accept that and keep banging on how much better they are.

It's not enough for them to have an eating disorder they have a personality disorder as well.

Eating Disorder? Please explain.

BTW, we are not better, we make different choices to you.

This reminds me of my gay friend.
She took every oppotunity to ensure people were left in no doubts about her sexual preferences, (making them uncomfortable in the process) and didn't take kindly to being told that nobody actually cared.

Surely as adults, people can do and eat and buy whatever the hell they want.

I really could not care who eats what, and their reasons for doing so.
My days of being told what I'm allowed to eat finished when I grew up and didn't have to please my mum.

The comment about what dogs eat. Well my two are not fussy. However husband had brought in some vegan burgers. Disgusting ! Now our dogs are not fussy however neither would tough them, not even a sniff