Moving to Portugal

Argh Petra- you are not the only one- it's those rose tinted glasses that do it, and programme like 'a house in the sun' etc. And I am absolutely sure you are NOT stupid at all- but perhaps, like me, your heart sometimes rules your head- for me, I am so lucky I know, it's always turned out well.

I do appreciate your comment Anno- but I can assure you I would not have made my post if I had not witnessed too many stories of heart over heads with a move abroad- which have turned into absolute disaster- for one reason or other, and lots of money lost and even bankruptcy. Some parts of France are so idyllic in the Summer- but are absoltuely diserted and freezing cold in winter, with lots of wind and snow (thinking of people we know who bought in the Creuse) - great for holidays, but living there a different kettle of fish. There is a good reason why alcoholism is rife among some expat communities, and isolated parts/rural locations.

Of course there are some wonderful stories too- but the %age of disasters is signficant. Being aware of this may be helpful in making a decision.

Granjura. Well said, your post Wed. 22. 19.07. If somebody had run a video before me and shown all that we would go through, I would have run a mile.
All my own fault. I went on holiday and bought a view! I didn't even see inside the house.
I must sound stupid, but I'm not. We were in the throes of selling our house and still had 2 others mortgage free, so I can't be that stupid, can I?
But I saw that view, and fell in love with it.
Fortunately, when I had had enough after 5 years there were other people who wanted that view, so we didn't loose any money.

Of course a lot will depend on how happy you are in your current life to start with. I don't think it's down to oomph or bravery or a can do attitude. If you leave a life you love, you will have a lot more to miss. In my case, the first year was exciting and new and I could see all the positives in my new home and gloss over the negatives. Living abroad was certainly a good life experience, as when I got home I started to appreciate the positives here too.

One other difficulty is when moving as a couple, and one really wants to and is pushing for it, and the other does not, but feel they have to tag along. Thinking about my neighbour's sister- who is staying with her at the mo. Her husband really pushed her to go and live in Quebec- and she really did not want to. 20 years later he has left her for her younger model- and she has just returned here with nothing- and her daughter and grandchildren in Canada siding with her dad. He put her off learning to drive, and never wanted her to deal with finances and paperwork, etc- and aged 72- has to start all over. So hard. This is often the case that one of the two wants to move abroad and the other one feels they have no choice.

I agree with absent that it is probably attitude which makes the difference between something being a success or a failure. Some people are good at making the best of whatever situation they find themselves in - others do not have enough "oomph" to adjust.

I am, sadly, part of that second group. Having moved within the UK but to a completely different location some three hundred miles away from London, I was unhappy and "homesick". I think it would be highly unlikely that I would be able to adjust to another country, but others with a more "can do" temperament could. I admire them.

I have a number of friends who left the UK to live in other European countries, mainly France and Italy, and all have become fluent in the language of their adopted home and are happily settled with no intention of returning permanently to the land of their birth. They are near enough, however, to visit friends and family in the UK if they wish to.

I emigrated to New Zealand just over two years ago. Obviously I have no need to learn a new language as English is one of the three official languages of the country. A major part of my reason for emigrating is that my daughter and her children live here, but I do miss my larger family and my friends. Popping back to see people in the UK is not on the cards, given the expense and the long travelling time. It has taken time to make new friends as our way of life is rather different from previously and we simply do not encounter so many people. I can't think of anything else that I miss.

I have no regrets about moving here but I think it is essential to go with a positive attitude and a determination to make your new life work.

I would have been heartbroken to leave my cats behind and spent silly amounts of money transporting them across the world. One of them died over a year ago but he had a great time before that. The two remaining cats are over 18 years old and still going strong, if a bit slower than before. Quite a large garden, as opposed to quite a small patio, has been an exciting new experience for them.

So happy for you AnnieGran- if I was a young muslim woman in France, I'd move to the UK too, I have to say.

Our son has done it the other way round - after 21 years (half his lifetime) working and living in Germany, Egypt and France, he and his beautiful Egyptian wife and two small children arrived home in England yesterday. The next part of his 'grown up adventure' as he calls it.

Our Muslim daughter in law will be able to wear her headscarf here, if she wants to, without being muttered at by French neighbours. The almost five year old will be able to draw how he wants and play without the teachers (unlike his French school) telling him he is doing it wrong and making him cry. Individualism is not appreciated in France.

My DH and I have spent years thinking we would like to live in southern France but I think it was really only the sun and the wine and one or two unusually kind and friendly natives. Or perhaps we weren't brave enough, as our son is, or as you are, Melanie. I wish you the very best of good luck in Portugal. xx

Very wise words Beattie- and such sound advice. I am so glad you and DH had a wonderful time before his demise, and that you put so much into your move and got even more back. We've also chosen to keep a flat in the UK, for the very reason you staete, but also so we can visit often without imposing on anyone (although we know we would be so welcome)- and I must say it feels great to have that 'safety net'. Enjoy the wonderful memories. Are you able to visit now still, or do you prefer not to?

My husband and I moved to the Balearics on retirement, having sold the family home but purchased a small flat in UK so we would have a base if things did not work out. 18 years later I have moved back to the flat in UK and sold up abroad. My husband died 5 years ago after 6 years of illness but I would not have missed it! Before the illness we had an idyllic time, almost the happiest of our 50+ years and following illness the care, support and medical attention was fabulous. My advice would be - most important to learn the language, don't hanker for everything British, embrace the local culture and people and keep an open mind. A generalisation I know but in my experience the continentals are warm hearted family orientated people who will welcome you aslong as your attitude is right. I wish you luck on your adventure, I am missing that life!

Glad you are so enjoying it Loulou- do you live there full time? Perhaps the Algarve's weather, and the expat network, is quite different to North Portugal?

Wilks- bravo for your efforts- as you say, knowing the language (not talking about fancy grammar here, but communication and understanding) makes a massive difference. When DD2 lived in the Canaries- she met 100s of Brits who had been there for many many years and could barely put 2 words together- and just shouted louder and louder if not understood- and were totally lost with red tape, admin, taxes, health, etc- as well as socially. Keep up the good work.

As Mamie says, it would be nice to hear back from melanietarot.

What do we miss here? Less and less, I have to say. We tend to have a ball with English foods when we go back, and family and friends keep in touch all the time- the internet and Skype make it so much easier these days. If ever we go back (and we've made sure we have plan B in place- just in case) it will be to see grandchildren on daily, weekly basis- rather than 4 to 5 times a year- or due to severe health problems. Health system here is second to none, but our daughters have asked us to go back if ever we need support, so they can be there for us. Having spent 20+ years looking after my ailing parents from abroad, trying to hold a full-time responsibility job and raising teenagers at the same-time + house and garden, etc- I would never wish to impose that on them- as it was so physically and emotionally draining.

Sounds exciting!

I lived in Japan for a year and had an amazing time - everything so new and interesting and the people were so kind. Enjoyed making friends with both locals and fellow English speakers.

What did I miss? ... food mostly - interesting cheese and curries

I missed friends and family too but one year isn't too bad for that as went with DP

Well we have had a place in Portugal for 10 years (The Algarve) and the people are lovely, the weather is marvellous and there is a great community spirit. We have visited various places in the North and found that delightful too, and the health service is very good. So what's not to like.

I agree SusieB. We studied Spanish for a few years before moving here and still have private lessons and language exchanges. Apart from it being rude not to learn the language of the country you live in, it does make it more interesting if you can chat with your neighbours and make friends. We are the only non Spanish in a block of 44 flats so it would be pretty lonely if we couldn't converse. Mostly my Spanish is complimented but yesterday somebody said 'how come you don't know more Spanish when you have lived here for 3 years?' Ouch! Anyway, it had the desired effect and the Spanish books have come out again today!

Melanie please look at the website for International Women In Portugal
www.IWPportugal.org and you are welcome to join us at an event sometime. There is also a link to Lisbon Angloinfo a website with lots of information in English about living in Portugal.

I live in Portugal a lot of the year West of Lisbon. The winters are great, yes it might rain a bit but still blue skies. Any country you are a foreigner you are at more risk of being taken for a ride. The language is difficult but there are lots of free classes run by the state for foreigners and a many Portuguese speak good English. Portugal like many other countries including the UK have been going through a hard time but they have buckled down and worked hard and doing well. Lisbon is the most Popular Capital in Europe and it is beautiful. The state health service is better than the UK at times.

The cats, well I have seen cats in our road sitting on gate posts almost laughing at barking dogs.

What do I miss, hanging baskets, beautiful England, easy shopping, live theatre, being always able to understand what people are saying. But now there are some very cheap flights home. And I will always be a foreigner.

I moved from SE England where I was born to the far southwest of england, twice having holidayed here so many times. Ok I hear you cry whats that got to do with anything? I moved with partner, we bought old house to renovate. He had no idea from the day we moved in that 368 days later he would be dead from metastic brain tumour. For 2 years I carried on, mostly in my cave and its only in the last few months I feel able to go out and face the world. My point being its hard to adjust when you are retired, people have their own friends/family unit and you are on your own and so it is the same wherever you are. I knew no one and now I know one person to have lunch and a laugh with, am on pleasantries with others walking the dogs. Sundays are the worst. Sometimes in a sunny clime people spend more time outdoors and the cafe culture is great if you are the type to make contact easily. Its not that hard in the great scheme of things but its a big effort.....Just saying!

My comment granjura is that if people have found themselves abroad without being able to communicate properly and cope, whether on their own or not, they shouldn't have moved there in the first place. Or they should have returned when they realised this was a possibility.

We live in Oviedo which is in the north of Spain and we love it here as we have city, mountains and Coast all within a few minutes. We do miss our daughter and friends and find the language a challenge at 69 and 75, but it keeps the brain active. Not much English spoken here and few expats. We like the 'life on the street' style and find it a bit oppressive how in Britain so many people hole themselves in their houses especially in winter. Weather here is quite similar to Britain but the attitude is that if its raining put up an umbrella and go out for your coffee. I don't know if we will eventually leave but it suits us here at present. We still have our house in Britain so we are hedging our bets!

We moved to Italy when we retired because that's where my DH was born. We are now regretting it as only thieves and villains thrive here!! Honest hard workers count for nothing. We bought some land to raise chickens and grow veg but we have been robbed of our hens 5 times. The most recent last Friday when he (we know who it is) stole our hens and 1 goose then again last night when the bastard came back for the remaining goose and our 2 ducks!! If we could afford to move back to Britain we would at the moment! I don't advise anybody to move here!!!

We were in our mid and late fifties GJ. But we had spent a lot of time in France, OH had worked here (well Paris and Grenoble not here) and we both spoke French. Nevertheless, living here permanently took a lot of getting used to!
Like Ffinn we considered selling and moving back a couple of years ago, but realised that our quality of life here was better than anything we could afford near our daughter.
So we will carry on gardening and when we get too old to manage we will sell it for what we can get and rent something smaller, probably on the French side of the Channel coast.
Yes, I use the Caen ferry like a bus really and can get a foot passenger crossing for about £20. I am very glad that we settled here and not further away; the winters are cold, but we go to Spain to see our son then!

I did not return as such I now live in Belguim. My husband went chasing a 24 year old French woman, he wanted her she did not want him.
The business we leased was for a couple and he refused to sign a lease renewal.
We lost everything as had to pay a release fee plus all the money we had sunk into the business and a house on negative equity.
I arrived here with DD and 2 suitcases, to a job and accomodation arranged for us by a Belgian friend, that was 19 years ago, and this is definately home.

felice, may I ask- why did you return though? Of course ignore if you'd rather not say. Moving abroad when you are young and active, to run a business- is very different to moving after retirement. so many of the expats we know did as you did- but lots have returned in latter years as they felt they had to be near family and 'things familiar'.

Mamie- great to hear about all the support. Living in the North of France though is very different to much further Portugal- you can hop on a train or car and be back 'home' or have family come over, in a giffy. Again, if I understand right, you also moved when younger?

We lived in the Algarve for a few years before moving here, this was about 20 years ago when Portugal was enjoying the fruits of the EU.
We ran a business employing 18 people, and sometimes i felt as though i was banging my head off a wall. Remember it was only in 1974 that portugal began it's journey to Democratic government.
The red tape was not too bad, and the health service very good, DS1 was taken very ill there and the treatment was excellent.
We lived in a village near our work and were shocked at some peoples living conditions, the family in the house behind ours only got electricity when we installed it in our house, they were a family with 5 quite young children and had never had running water or electricity. the mother of the family went to a stand pipe with a wheelbarrow full of plastic containers twice a day to collect water.
The winters were cold and wet, weather straight from the Atlantic, even on summer evenings there can be very cold winds.
Summers were wonderful, and we never needed a babysitter for DD, she was 6 when we moved there, the whole village looked after all the children.
We did speak Portuguese on arrival and DD went immediately into the local primary school.
We took our cat with us and he loved it, in fact he stayed on as he had developed Arthritis and we felt it would be unfair to move him back to northern Europe and to apartment living. Our lovely neighbours adopted him and he had a further 4 happy years eating Sardines in the sun.
There are plus and minus factors to living anywhere, and i think the plus outweighed the minus.

Lots of examples round here of people struggling, unable to drive or manage alone, after bereavement or separation. Our commune has been brilliant at giving support, with the Maire taking on the job of getting help from social services. Not saying anyone should not move in the first place for those reasons but I do think it is reasonable to have a Plan B.
MargaretX well aware of possibility on internet shopping from M and S etc but shallow as it may be it is actual shopping that I enjoy!
Would be nice to hear back from the OP now?

Apologies gj - not ga.

Yes, I think the administrative stuff would be much harder. My head is firmly planted in the sand regarding that!