Moving to Portugal

When I lived in Germany many years ago I missed the British sense of humour, the pubs, British TV, queuing, our gardens and parks, fish and chips, curries, long shop opening hours, tea, and the lack of rules and fuss as to when washing was hung out, snow was cleared, toilets flushed etc, etc. Most of those things wouldn't even apply now. For the first year the pluses outweighed the minuses - the excellent public transport, the clean streets, the care for the environment, high wages. For the second year I was very, very home sick.

totally finnochio - but being away from friends and family, and not speaking the language to deal with red tape and health professionals, etc- does make ordeals so much harder to deal with- especially in an area where there are not many other expats.

I was so so lucky in the UK with the friends and support I go- but my OH is English and I spoke the language fluently and was young.

Yes, ga, I have know of some very sad times experienced by some among the wider community (not on a forum tho') and also of the kindness and support offered to those in difficulty. I am sure this also happens in the UK.

I've lived in Germany for 45 years and after a lot of homesickness and missing things, I got a chance to go back to England for 5 years in the 90s. So I was back and had all those things I used to miss, and found out I missed Germany. The culture, the language, my job, and they way things are done here and of course the Health System. After 5 years and after having a house in each country - a dream to some people - I was glad to get back to one house and stop worrying about break ins and central heating in the winter etc.
I spoke good German from the start and after moving house with small children twice with DH already working in the new place, I was so glad I could make myself understood.
I can't understand why you all miss John Lewis and M&S. I order regularly from M&S on line and have ordered bedding from John Lewis. It is all very well organised now. M&S have an extra page online for Germany in English or in German- take your pick.
melanie If you can speak some Poruguese then enjoy your time there but it takes many years to really settle. its different when you are no longer a tourist. I was part of a German family so full intergration was assured but just two expats - thats another matter. Good Luck!

Will leave you to it. If OP is fully aware of possible difficulties, and know the area, have done the research- then there is no problem at all- and I wish them a wonderful time in Portugal- and just leave them with the advice to learn Portuguese with intensive lessons as soon as settled- it really does help, in 1000s of ways.

well of course- same here. But as you have been in France for some time, have you not come across some quite tragic cases and many people who say 'we had very rose tinted glasses, and had no idea how hard it would be?' - do you speak French both of you. Portuguese is so much more difficult to learn too- I speak 5 languages, but totally failed with Portuguese.

Perhaps you are even aware of the case I was speaking about- with the really nice old man who died after his 3rd hip replacement failed- if you are on a French forum.

We have discussed it as a family, and DDs have made us promise to go back if anything happens to either of us- and we have everything in place, just in case- and are really enjoying our new life here- and yet ready to adapt if need be.

well of course- same here. But as you have been in France for some time, have you not come across some quite tragic cases and many people who say 'we had very rose tinted glasses, and had no idea how hard it would be?' - do you speak French both of you. Portuguese is so much more difficult to learn too- I speak 5 languages, but totally failed with Portuguese.

Perhaps you are even aware of the case I was speaking about- with the really nice old man who died after his 3rd hip replacement failed- if you are on a French forum.

If I'd considered the what would happen if my husband died and left me alone scenario, I would have had my feet encased in concrete, unable to move. What good would that be? Sometimes all one can do is to take a leap of faith into adventure. If I hadn't taken that leap, then I wouldn't have had the life experiences and friendships that I now have. One cannot predict the future (and yes, I understand one can make reasonable provisions i.e. language/money).
I'll take it on the chin if and when that happens. Or, who knows, I might die first!

Thank you Merlot. Have you ever lived abroad for a long period of time- as especially as an older person? As said, those who have, will be fully aware of the dramas we've witnessed.

I don't think anyone would move to an area north of Lisbon without researching it thoroughly. Expats are usually inclined to choose the Algarve which has a more Mediterranean climate. I've never seen such rain as I experienced at Sintra when on a Ramblers holiday in Portugal! It's rather a wet part of Europe - very green for that reason.

Sorry, granjura. I've read a few self-important posts on Gransnet but apart from the last sentence, I think you can award yourself an oscar for yours.

Merlot and jingl- there is no indication at all from the OPs post that the 'homework' has been done, I'm afraid. Those os us who live abroad, and have been involved with expats and forums, especially retired couples- have heard so many who have come a-cropper, in so many ways- and have said, again and again- if only I had realised how hard this was going to be. 1000s - and those who then find themselves unable to sell and lose everything, or sell way below price and just cannot afford to move back- and those who become very ill or widowed- and are totally bereft. DD2 speaks fluent Spanish and lived in the Canaries for years, and came across so many tragic cases of older people totally lost and with one being left alone- without speaking a word- having to cope with social services, governement, taxes, permits, health issues, etc.

I've heard so many heart rendering stories that would make you weep- so, I think it is only fair- as there is NO indication whatsoever from OP that they know the area really well- that they are aware that it is not always easy. I became involved with an older man who had serious health issues and died- and his poor wife, living in a rural area, unable to drive and to speak hardly a word- as her husband spoke French and drove, and dealt with everything. Tragic.

If OP is fully aware of above, then there is no issue, is there.

Melanie - I've lived in France for 12 years - but had been visiting it regularly for many years before that, in all seasons. That didn't prepare me for the homesickness that occasionally washes over me. Initially, we came here for the adventure of it all, feeling still young enough to do so. I was always of the mind that we would return to the UK. About 2 years ago we put the house on the market, which concentrated the mind somewhat. We took it off again. I'd finally given myself the choice, stay or return. What we have here we love more than what England could offer us.
We visit when we can & love the buzz of London where my son lives, but I have more family spread around the world than in England. In fact, more in France than England, altho' right the other side.

I have been very thankful that there is a healthy ex-pat community - and not all English by any means. I have made some good and lasting friends.

I miss less and less the superficial stuff; clothes shopping, M&S/J.L. etc., and value the tranquillity and kindness we find here. We have a great French/English Library.

Nowhere will be perfect. It all depends on the compromises one is prepared to consider.

We have more seasons here

French Winter (continental - v. v. cold occasionally)
Winter (wet - English)
UK Summer (French Spring)
French Summer (hot, hot)
UK Autumn = English summer
French Autumn

It won't always be easy, but then that's life. Wishing you well.

I get the impression the OP has done her homework. She is asking what we would miss about the UK, not whether we think she should go or not.

...but there's a time and a place for saying something.

I think the original poster meant this to be fairly light-hearted thread. Not one to keep her awake nights with seething anxiety. #Gransnet.

I'd second everything in Granjura's post of 14.58.51.
We first visited my in laws in the south of Portugal in 1987 and for the next ten years had regular holidays and breaks there at all different times of the year.(We probably drove the in laws mad. ) We then spent the winter there, not with them but in the countryside nearby without a car. We went home and sold the house. We had a couple of years either renting or house sitting until we found the right piece of land to build on. Just before we signed, we were told we might have to bulldoze the old cottage that we had planned to live in until the new house was built and build in its footprint but loved the site so much that we went ahead.
It took us two years and a lot of money to get it ready to camp in and we went on from there.

I don't regret it but realise that at 72 now, it is going to get more difficult.
DH and I speak some Portuguese, more than enough to get by on and we still have lessons but I wish I'd applied myself more when younger with a better memory. It is a common myth that all the doctors and nurses speak English although they can usually find someone who does albeit not fluently.

The things I miss are virtually the same as Mamie's. Same shops too.
I miss our close friends in England and I used to really miss the libraries but the advent of the internet has changed that.

By the way my in laws brought two cats out with them and although one sadly escaped from their caravan in the middle of Spain the other lived to a ripe old age, as did the cats and dogs they adopted later.

Although we have travelled the length and breadth of Portugal, there is still a lot we haven't visited and I don't know any area as well as I know the south but if I can tell you anything else feel free to PM me.

We feel totally at home in both countries too. The Normandy landscape is very English though, the climate is like south-east England (a bit colder in winter and warmer in summer) and there is definitely still a strong bond from the events of 1944.
I live 130 miles from where I was born in Surrey as the crow flies.
I didn't come to France thinking the health service would be better, but I have to say that I think it is.
Apart from that, some things are better, some not.
My children and their families are in England and Spain and we are in France. We make it work.

Blimey granjura, you know how to rain on someone's parade don't you? I am sure melanietarot has done her homework, she does say they are moving to Portugal, not thinking of moving to Portugal and I love the way after all the cons and cons (no pros?) - you say 'good luck' !

We feel totally at home both in UK and here- and love the contrast between the two. But but of this contrast is due to town versus mountains. It's only a day's drive or train to go back and forth too. And totally different as I was born and bred here- so we know how it works in both places, have friends and family in both and are both bi-lingual.

I lived abroad for 5 years. What did I miss about the UK, everything!

I would miss so many things about the UK - far too many to list.

Some years ago I thought I'd like to live abroad but, having spent four months in a country which many people think looks like paradise, I've changed my mind. Sunshine is so much more appreciated and enjoyable when it's not predictable - I never would have guessed I would tire of constant heat but sometimes I yearned for a cool breeze.

And there are so many different and beautiful landscapes, villages, towns and cities in the UK - some of which I am still looking forward to visit.

For all its (alleged) faults I would miss the NHS, shops, theatre visits, friends and family.

I have lived in France for ten years and the thing I miss most is shopping.
Waitrose, John Lewis, Lakeland and even M and S.
I spend about six to eight weeks a year in England and I pack in ballet, concerts and art galleries (though we do quite well for those here!) during those weeks.
Agree absolutely with Granjura about the need to speak the language fluently and not to rely on an ex-pat community.
I love the peace and quiet here, our village community and our big garden, where we grow a lot of fruit and veg.
I enjoy my visits to England, but find that the crowds and the traffic get to me after a bit and I am happy to come home.
It does take time though.

I would miss loads , family of course, my friends, the changeable weather and of course the cold Winters which I don't mind . I'd miss red buses , the postman, Tesco/Sainsbury, good old British seaside holidays, the library , medical staff who understand me (I don't speak Portugese), pottering in my garden on a damp day all the museums and galleries available to me in London and the ease of transport and diverse shops and cafes , I'd miss the tube (free travel).
I've never wanted to live anywhere else to be honest and I may be a stick in the mud but I'm happy living here. I hope you have done your research and that your move goes well and you are happy in your new life. Good luck

Do you know Portugal well - have you been to that area for at least 1 year- to see what it is like in winter too? Have you got friends and family there? And most of all, do you speak Portuguese? Portugal is going through a very hard time now, and foreigners can be both resented and taken for a ride, as well as their daily lives made very difficult with red tape and regulations, etc. Same in Spain and italy, Greece- and even parts of France. What seems idillic on holiday maybe very different in November... What if one of you becomes ill? it is very hard to be a long way from home when things go wrong- I know several widows in France who do not speak the language, cannot drive and just can't sell the house. Don't want to pain a bleak picture, but you really need to go through all the 'what ifs'.

good luck.