Upstairs tenants and front garden

Right, so this is really access to the bins only. I am assuming the door is communal - but if it's your door alone then the situation is even worse.

It is not at all as I imagined and very small and very close to the house.
I can see how awkward it is.

Good luck!

Yes I have in the past thought of getting the landlord to 'pass by', thanks

Heres the space I am talking about.

Thanks for all your replies, it's one of those situations that folks see differently, may do the lifting of jumper at the windows idea! Basically the front is mine as is the back. The portion that is communal is literally the path and bin area. I have joint upkeep with the landlord although he has never cut the hedge or cleaned anything. It's not really much of a space. I have to come out of the bedroom if it don't want to hear anyone and have had to wade through a load of people on chairs to get to my front door. I agree with the suggestion wait until the 17th May to write a polite note. I agree Craicon this conditioning to be bloody nice is exhausting. I have had three adults and two children living above me in a one bed and I was blimmin nice then as well only because the landlord was useless and I had to live with them. I know I am making too much of this but I am not in a house share and they are not letting a garden flat. I will write the polite note or knock on their door and make it clear that it's not to be used end of. Thanks again folks for your input, I only just realised there were all these replies.

Just an idea, and maybe not a quick fix, but....
Could you get in touch with the upstairs landlord, get a definite idea of exactly where your back garden extends to and, as soon as is practical, get some trellis fencing put up on the boundary and plant a lot of climbers, quick growers interspersed with slow growers. At the very least, you should get your privacy back fairly soon. There might still be some noise but at least the whole garden wouldn't be occupied.

She actually says "the front is mine and a small part communal" hannalouiseluke
I'm wondering where and what this communal area is...

Please come back jkenn!!

I read it as the communal area is inside the house ie. hallway, and possibly the front path. The tenants are not paying rent for a garden flat and are taking advantage of the op’s kindness during lockdown. It’s not very clear though and it would be good if the op could come back to us. Hope she gets it sorted out.

EllanVannin

What about the back garden ? I don't understand.

The back garden isn’t under discussion, it’s owned and used by the OP exclusively. The front garden is hers too but as I understand there is a small access area jointly owned by her and the other freeholder and she has allowed the upstairs tenants to sit there during lockdown. They are now using it to entertain friends and therein lies the problem.

NotSpaghetti

I'm not sure I fully understand here.
How much of the front area are they officially "allowed" to use as part of their tenancy agreement?

Where is this part in relation to your access and bedroom wall?

From what OP said, none if the front garden is available to the other flat. She and the landlord are jointly responsible for a small area and the rest is hers exclusively, so the upstairs tenants don’t have any rights to use it.

I'd consider swapping the bedroom to the back if your other room isn't open plan with the kitchen...

I think.... Eazybee... has the most honest and practical advice.

Flippant suggestion here, but remember the Malteasers advert? As in going to the window and pulling your jumper up?! Or prance around in front of the window scantily clad? If I did that, there'd be an immediate evacuation of the area outside, all scrambling to get away

I am a joint freeholder with the landlord. I have a back garden, the front is mine and a small part communal, as in the landlord and I are jointly responsible for it.

So, it looks like it is your garden at the front therefore you are perfectly entitled to ask your neighbours not to congregate in the front garden. I would be putting it into writing that on the 21st June when all restrictions are lifted, the garden will be reverting to private use only. It is only an unreasonable person who would argue the point and you won't keep them happy by being accommodating in the long run.

The communal areas are a little more difficult and you would need to refer to the landlord to get a pointer as to what is reasonable.

We have a converted house and the lower flat has the garden at the back. The frontage is a shared space but I wouldn't expect people to sit out there on a regular basis. I'd never really thought of it as being anything but a place for the bins. I hope my upstairs tenants feel the same!

I agree that talking to the landlord is the way to go. Get things sorted out now before the deckchairs start appearing.

The best thing would be to get your landlord to talk to them, and point out that they do not have use of the gardens in their rental agreements. If he could ’pass by’ and ’see’ such a gathering it wouldn’t rebound on you.

Talk to the other Freeholder so that he ensures all tenants are aware of the areas they’re entitled to use. It must be very irritating for you.

Talk to landlord ask him to remind the tenants the garden is yours as they do not pay for it therefore they are now trespassing on your property!

Obviously not that big a problem as the op hasn’t come back to engage with the posters who have taken the time to give helpful suggestions.
Not even a thank you.

If its communal space you can do nothing as they have a right to be there, if it's your space they you need to discuss this with them or speak to the landlord to do it, or do it together. I'm unsure where communal garden is. Both our neighbours are saying we own adjourning fences so they both won't step down and we are not paying for all new fencing, at over £4,000 it's expensive. We have finished paing mortgage so have Deeds and guess what? We are all jointly responsible for all boundary, think they maybe in for a shock especially as we offered to pay 1/2 in first place. Check your Deeds. Xxxx

I think that you need to involve the landlord and get them to inform the other tenants just what, if any of the outside area that they are entitled to use.
You have been kind enough so far but now the restrictions have eased, they really seem to be taking the mickey - unless they are totally ignorant that that bit is not for their use?

As I read it the OP owns all of a it , but a small piece is owned by the Landlord who also own the flat upstairs.
Speak to the landlord of the flat upstairs to make sure he hasn’t said that the tenants can use the front garden, specifically the part where it is by your bedroom window.
If he hasn’t given permission, then you will have to tell them that now the Covid Emergency is over they will have to meet their friends in the local parks as you are now reclaiming your gardens as you were being a good neighbour when it was needed.
Put it in writing ( in a friendly way) so that they all understand.
But you need to speak to the Landlord first, especially as they might ask him for permission to use the part by your window as part of their let.

you must get the landlord to sort this out and regain your garden. What a nightmare to have a group of youngsters outside your window.
It doesn't pay to be kind sometimes does it.

I find this rather confusing and think the OP needs a good solicitor to find out the legal basis of ownership and set out clear boundaries about what the landlord of the upstairs flat can and can’t do when he lets out his property.
I’m sure somewhere along the line there must be some restrictive covenants aimed at preventing this sort of situation.
The OP should have been given sight of any tenancy agreement at the very least and that should have clearly set out that any tenants didn’t have the right to use that part of the property that belongs to the OP.

It’s really the landlord's responsibility to make sure his tenants behave themselves and if I were the OP that’s where I would start - by asking the landlord what the terms of the agreement are, telling him that his tenants appeared to be breaching it (if they are) and asking him to do something about it.

The back garden is hers
She is maintaining the front garden too as she is responsible for it's upkeep
People don't usually sit in it but now upstairs are whilst she maintains it
she is fed up of them sitting outside her bedroom window
That is how I read it anyway

what is the status of the communal area ?
is it part of the garden, to be used by both them and you.
why would you need that space too, if you have your own garden.
or is it only for them, in which case how is it communal.
or is it merely a passageway, circulation area, giving access to the front door for both flats.
either way, sounds like you need to talk to their landlord.