Having a cleaner. Or not.

Thanks everyone for confirming what I thought.
I found my cleaner by asking on the local Facebook group and chose her because I knew her. This has probably lead to a very informal arrangement, which she’s taking advantage of.

Ask around - see if you can get a word of mouth recommendation for someone else first ...

You must have offered her a coffee-or is she making it for you and getting herself one? Maybe stop that , unless you enjoy the company. My MiL had a cleaner and we found that MiL was making the cleaner breakfast and then moaning that she didn’t do the cleaning properly.

NotSpaghetti
No probably not!

*Sara19548 this particular cleaner only does 1 hour one week and 1.5 hrs the next.
I don't think she'll need a break.

I’ve never been at home when I’ve had cleaners in, I would find that altogether too awkward, I’d probably keep offering to help.
But I’m sure they’re entitled to a coffee break, so if they want to make coffee and put their feet up fog ten minutes or so, that’s fine by me, as long as they get through the work.

Jaylucy that’s very good advice , I usually have a chat about what needs done , but sometimes my lady takes me by surprise , like telling me it’s time to clean the inside of the windows !
She did clean the essentials first

My mum was a cleaner for 3 different people right into her late 70s more because each person she visited often had no one else and she became more of a friend than just an employee.
That was fine because that was what the different people wanted rather than she just decided to sit and have coffee with them (it was sherry at one house) but always at the end of her allotted time at the employer's invitation.
If you are happy to have a coffee and a chat, just make sure that as soon as she walks in the door, you ask her to clean the bathroom, mop the floor, vaccuum the lounge etc and then say that when she has finished that perhaps you can have a coffee. Worth trying for a few weeks so she realises it's employer and employee, not pals.
If it fails, you will sadly have to have the "sorry it's not working out" conversation.

A lot of cleaners are local, generally women, who are paid ‘cash in hand’, rightly or wrongly. They are part of the thriving black economy EP, my Mum had such a lady for over 20 years.

Franbern

Best to use an agency. If you are employing a cleaner direct, then remember - you are doing just that - employing. So, you need to ensure that either they are registered as self-employed - the best way - or else you have all the responsibility as their employer including holiday and sick pay, etc.

I think that it would be good and possibly helpful to many if the 'etc' in your post were spelled out.

My understanding is that the 'etc' include insurance in case of the employee being injured during employment, the obligation of the employer in respect of National Insurance, reporting the payments of money to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. Are there any more?

My understanding is that if A pays B money to do work then if B is registered as a business (including self-employed) then the onus for all the legal compliance is for B to do, otherwise the onus is on A who is regarded as the employer.

There may possibly be some special arrangement if it is for ONLY personal care for oneself, I saw something about that, but not the details, but it does not extend to cleaning the house or gardening.

I would NEVER pay anyone to do work for me if that would put me in the position of being an employer as that would immediately put legal obligations on me that I am not going to put myself in the position of having..

I am not a lawyer and so this needs checking, but another thing to consider is the position if the person doing the work has an accident while in your home or garden while working.

Sago ?!

I employ cleaners at work very successfully, spelling out exactly what needs doing.
At home I seem to be a complete pushover, why is that?

Best to use an agency. If you are employing a cleaner direct, then remember - you are doing just that - employing. So, you need to ensure that either they are registered as self-employed - the best way - or else you have all the responsibility as their employer including holiday and sick pay, etc.

I think maybe you enjoyed the coffee and chat at first but it's become more like a visit from a friend.

Yes, unfortunately, I think you need to let this one go - unless you enjoy her company and chatter? In which case you maybe need to not offer coffee next time.

My mother-in-law has had a cleaner since I first met her in the 1970s (not the same one) with s short gap in the 2000s. I doubt she has offered any of them coffee.

My mother had a cleaner (interesting that my father didn't! ) when I was little and she was working.
My welcoming, generous and gregarious mother had her come on Mum's morning off and made the "visits" into "coffee mornings" too. I know she found this frustrating but accepted she had done it herself.

Bite the bullet. Unless you are rural you will surely find someone who won't be so chatty.

I had a cleaner that just talked and cleaned what she wanted, the only reason she stayed so long was because she had a a daughter that lived in a flat over a delicatessen.

She referred to her as “ our Sonia what lives over the dellincontestant “

Naughty I know but it gave us much amusement.

Thanks Sara

Silverlinings
I spent a couple of years emailing agencies, only to receive no response at all, or be told they don’t operate in my area.
I think the Parish magazine, or the village website are probably better, I eventually found my lovely girl when she did a leaflet drop in the area.

I have never had a cleaner and have done the cleaning with little enthusiasm for over 50 years so am seriously considering it. It’s finding the right person though. Where do I start?

You can say whatever you want to let her go. Don’t worry too much about that - she has been taking advantage of the situation. You sound very kind but it might be better to keep the relationship slightly formal next time. Perhaps write out a list of regular tasks and tasks to be done as needed or on rotation.

I’m sorry to hear that you have polymyalgia. (I have it too.) It sounds like you are feeling energetic and able to move around now, which is great, but be careful taking too much on. That can lead to flare ups.

I have had cleaners on and off over the years, some good, some bad.
Agency cleaners, in my experience have been the worst, but at least you can ask for someone else if you aren’t happy with them.
The girl I have at the moment is great, she does five hours a week, doing as much as she can, and starting where she left off the next week.
I would prefer to do it myself really, but she buys me time, which I never seem to have enough of.

You are the employer Watermeadow you should be clear about your expectations. An hours work does not warrant coffee as well.
I would let this cleaner go and tell her you are not satisfied with her work
When you employ someone else be clear about what you expect from them and reach an agreement which suits you both. Good luck.

My lovely cleaner comes for 2 hours a week , she has been coming for years and has a routine , she won’t stop for coffee , she decides which bit to concentrate on each weeks . If I need ironing done she fits it in and drops something , but does that first the next week ,
She is on the waiting list for knee replacement so I try to get her to slow down !
She is never late
I really missed her during lockdown

I’ve been having a cleaner for a few months now and it’s brilliant! I live alone and am fairly tidy so I have a fortnightly visit for two hours at a time. In the two hours ( or possibly one hour if two cleaners come) they clean the kitchen, bathroom, my bedroom, lounge with small conservatory and the hall. Then there is also time to do a couple of other areas on a rota basis - two spare room, stairs and craft room/study or anything I ask, next visit they are going to do the windows and Venetian blinds in the main areas instead of the spare rooms.

The cleaner does not have a break or a drink although I did insist on her having some cold water when it was very hot, they bring all their own cleaning materials including the vacuum cleaner and I’m very happy with the standard of the work.

I used a local community Facebook page to get names and this lady was recommended several times. She actually runs a small agency, employing seven or eight cleaners so I know they all get holiday and sick pay. Her charge is £12 an hour ie £24 per fortnight.

It sounds as if your cleaner is taking advantage of you if she’s having long breaks while you are paying her. Personally I would be looking for someone else, but get recommendations from other people first. Just tell her it is not working out, that she is late which is difficult for you to plan for and point out the jobs that are not getting done. If you are not as blunt as me then yes, tell her you are going to have a go at cleaning for yourself again.

If you go to a decent Agency, it is possibly easier for you to have an intermediary, to sort out any problems or misunderstandings, or simply to change the cleaner for you if you aren't happy. However that all comes at an extra cost.
Only you will know if you want to pay what they charge.

I won't repeat what Galaxy says, which is good advice I think. I will say, however, that one hour a week - most weeks - is not very much time so it is much more important for you to decide exactly what you want done (well!) in the time and to establish that it is do-able. Punctuality is important and a high standard of work. Maybe take someone on a trial basis and agree that at the start, (she may not like you, you may not be happy with her), far better to not make anything permanent immediately.

We decided a couple of years ago that we should get a cleaner, and it was a hard decision as I loved keeping the house nice, but arthritis was getting the better of me. DH enjoys doing lots of other things round the house and so it works for us to have a cleaner.
We went with an agency (and it sounds as if you haven't). Of course you pay more to an agency, but our cleaner gets holiday & sick pay, and has a pension plan. She is part of a team who plan and organise the work together, with the chance of progressing. They all take pride in their work, and any issues are dealt with promptly and professionally.
Lineslass mentioned boundaries - and it is easier for an agency to keep to those.
I hope you can sort something out.