Another way your house can be stolen

No she didn’t download it. I gave her a copy of the POA in case social workers etc might need to see it. She saw a helpline phone number on the form and rang them.. it went on from there. They did have something to compare my signature with, it was on the original application which was filled out by hand AND had to be witnessed, so they had no excuse. This form my daughter sent in happened just 6 months after I had been granted the POA, also she can read and write but has no understanding of numbers, time, distance etc so that is why her financial affairs are under a POA, her health and well being she manages ok. I also take offence with your statement that this was some achievement for someone with such severe learning difficulties they can’t manage their affairs, you are obviously a person who has never had to raise a daughter like mine and I won’t justify myself to you on how the decision was made.

Your daughter was able to locate and download the relevant form Barmey and had the details of the LPA including the OPG registration reference which the form requires? That’s quite an achievement for someone with such severe learning difficulties that they can’t manage their affairs. What writing of yours, apart from a signature, would the OPG have to compare with? Remember someone wishing to relinquish their attorneyship may have declined to the point of being unable to write properly or sign their name, and a mark is accepted in lieu of signature.

I have LPA for my daughters finances because she wasn’t capable due to her learning disability. She objected by getting hold of a form that I would normally fill in to say I no longer wanted to do it. Filled it out and signed it with an X. They stopped me acting and it took 2 years, even involved the Minister for Justice. Turned out they had no fraud dept. Couldn’t make it up. Someone with any sense would only have to look at the writing, spelling and what was said.

MerylStreep

The coincidence in the 2 cases I’ve heard so far ( only 1 involving POA) is that both parties were living alone and both had left the houses empty for periods of time.
In this case the victims lock was drilled out so they could intercept her post.
There is another warning: always tell someone if your going away.

Yes, I think the 3 things mentioned in the programme that makes a property vulnerable were: the property has no mortgage; it only has 1 owner, and it's been empty for a while. I think you're right - neighbours need to be alerted and given contact numbers if they see anything suspicious, and contacted regularly to check on the property. The programme also mentioned that one of the properties had an external postbox (rather than a letterbox in the front door) and anyone could have put their hand in and taken whatever was in it.

Sago

I had to apply for deputy ship over my mothers affairs.
The reams of forms are incredibly complex, I had to have witness statements from a social worker and a solicitor.
The OPG were thorough.

I think that's a different thing to LPA? Deputyship (as far as I understand it) is when the person has already lost capacity to deal with their affairs? A LPA is when they themselves grant it (before they lose capacity). That may explain why the process was more rigorous (although I do feel that they both should be equally as rigorous!)

FarNorth

I recently set up LPA in Scotland.
I had to provide two forms of ID, even tho the solicitor knows me, and she had to sign the form to say that I was of sound mind at the time and she had seen the ID.

That's great to hear. From the You & Yours programme it sounds as though, in England and Wales, any name and address can be put down (presumably, even that of a "solicitor") and they are almost never checked. One fraudster was spotted only because a real solicitor, who was handling the conveyancing of the house she was trying to sell, became suspicious - but how many are just not so careful? It's a disgrace that checking witnesses isn't done automatically on such a powerful document. The original POA for the complainant on the programme is still "out there" and, although it's been cancelled by the OPG, if anyone accepts it on face value (and doesn't check) than the fraudster could still gain access to their funds, etc. The lack of checks is unbelievable.

I recently set up LPA in Scotland.
I had to provide two forms of ID, even tho the solicitor knows me, and she had to sign the form to say that I was of sound mind at the time and she had seen the ID.

Hetty58

I would say that, if you are going away for some time, always have your mail redirected. It only costs £34 for three months.

that's a good idea,
but, if someone has gained access to your property, they could still have their mail sent there.
i mean the re-direction will only apply to letters in your name.
there are so many scams and evil doings.
another is predatory marriage. very little checks or anything to stop that, with vulnerable people.
and cuckoo-ing of homes.
and even worse, offences against the person, ID theft etc.

DH and I went through something similar a few years back my PIL lived in a house with moorings next to a pub, MIL died 10 years ago, after her death my DH and I lost contact with FIL due to a family dispute after he died we went to the house and were shocked to find the pub had commandeered the moorings and were using it for their customers, when we spoke to the LL, he told us FIL had sold the moorings to him, he believed we were the new owners of the house and basically told us we should have got our solicitor to check things out, but the land was his and there was nothing we could do about it.

What he didn't know was that my PIL had never owned the house, it was left to me by my grandfather, my PIL were homeless at the time and we let them live there paying a peppercorn rent.

It took 2 years and a court decision before we got the land back, it was a nightmare but now we have moved into the house and the LL sold up so we don't have to deal with him anymore, he really was a nasty piece of work and it soon became apparent he had bullied FIL into 'selling' (we could find no money paid from LL to FIL BTW) the land

4allweknow

Surely with any POA the dicuments have to be witnessed by a person who can verify you are of sound mind to approve the legality of the documents. There are limited professions who are accepted as being able to do this eg GP, Solicitor, Minister of Religion and ctheir details must be provided to the registering body. Horrendous if any name and address is accepted.

Actually the person who witnesses that the donor has the capacity to understand what they are signing only has to be someone who has known them for a period of time. It could be a neighbour or a friend, it does not need to be someone from a specific profession.

I agree with GSM that the best way to prevent fraud is to set up your own LPA well before you are elderly and register it with the OPG so that they would be alerted if a new form was received. I think these kind of scams mainly target elderly people.

It is a very simple process, I did mine online during the first lockdown just after I’d updated my will.

I would say that, if you are going away for some time, always have your mail redirected. It only costs £34 for three months.

I think so rowyn!!!

Germanshepherdsmum
Thanks, I'll check.

(I think your name is longer than my message!)

I shouldn’t have said empty They were living somewhere else for a period of time.

The coincidence in the 2 cases I’ve heard so far ( only 1 involving POA) is that both parties were living alone and both had left the houses empty for periods of time.
In this case the victims lock was drilled out so they could intercept her post.
There is another warning: always tell someone if your going away.

Sorry, just noticed that previous poster has put up link. It is very simple, I have just done it.

OPG is Office of the Public Guardian.

grannyrebel7

Is there anything you can sign up to to prevent this happening? It's just awful.

yes, you can do something online with Land Registry to alert you to any such potential fraud and criminal acts.

nahsma
I think I did all the right things at the time, but I don't know what OPG is? Help!
Sorry if I'm being stupid.

No. The LR only covers England and Wales. Scotland has a different system.

nahsma

You can sign up for Land Registry alerts on your property here: propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/?fbclid=IwAR1cyDLSHJz6tUa-sAZ17TJPh-krhgJbuWGbsUdZ1A1USaanbiPIc7ZzLOA

Can you tell me if this covers Scotland? It won't accept my postcode

Have you registered your LPA with the OPG rowyn? It can’t be used until you do and registration lessens the chance of someone trying to register a forged one.

Thanks, Germanshepherdsmum and Nahsma, that's really useful to know. I've had a Lasting Power of Attorney for quite a few years, but didn't know about the Land registry. I've been and gone and immediately signed up to have my home monitored.

Yes nahsma but it doesn’t help if the title to your property isn’t registered, as is often the case with older people who have lived in their home for many years. There is a way to receive notifications in such a case which involves registering a ‘caution against first registration’ at the LR.

silvertwigs I don’t see how your suggestions could possibly work in practice. It’s not like presenting yourself in person at border control, who have all the equipment for identification.

You can sign up for Land Registry alerts on your property here: propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/?fbclid=IwAR1cyDLSHJz6tUa-sAZ17TJPh-krhgJbuWGbsUdZ1A1USaanbiPIc7ZzLOA