Why bungalows for sale are so neglected?

Goodness me! Some names I didn't expect to see on the naughty step!

PS. I didn't see the offending comments, so no comment from me.

growstuff

Goodness me! Some names I didn't expect to see on the naughty step!

PS. I didn't see the offending comments, so no comment from me.

I can't remember mine and GNHQ haven't emailed me to let me know.
Oh dear, I meant to hide this thread!

Just to add, we did have our house valued so we knew our financial limits when looking for a bungalow now we are elderly.

We had a joke with the Estate Agent about the only bungalows available being identical 1960/1970s boxes in God's Waiting Room and he did say they are becoming increasingly popular with young families because of affordability and the good schools being in the same location.

With a name like merlotgran, the starring rôle is reserved for you! 😃

😂🍷🍷🍷

Bumped off by the end of the first chapter!

merlotgran

^With a name like merlotgran, the starring rôle is reserved for you! 😃^

😂🍷🍷🍷

Bumped off by the end of the first chapter!

Oh no, you're Chief Sleuth!!
And supplier of merlot, we need you. 🍷

^Oh no, you're Chief Sleuth!!
And supplier of merlot, we need you. 🍷^

Miss Marple of the Vineyard 😂

😁

Foxygloves

Well somebody’s been busy with the button!
I see I got deleted but IMHO any goadiness stemmed from another source altogether who shall remain nameless and as for “disablism” (if such a word exists) what, where, when, how?
The overt ageism which permeated the thread was however another matter altogether and (again IMHO) should have been reported and nipped in the bud from the outset.

Disablism (aka ableism) has been defined by the Council for Europe as

www.coe.int/en/web/compass/disability-and-disablism#What%20is%20Disablism

discriminatory, oppressive, abusive behaviour arising from the belief that disabled people are inferior to others. Disablism refers to prejudice, stereotyping, or "institutional discrimination" against disabled people. The main problem about disablism (also known as abilism or ableism) is that it is not easy to identify. In many cases, people do not realise that it exists. Disablism is first and foremost about people's attitudes: it does not only refer to consciously discriminatory behaviour, but also to the way that people unconsciously relate to people with disabilities. The unconscious part of discriminatory attitudes is much harder to tackle than conscious acts of discrimination, but both need to be equally targeted in the struggle for human rights.

I saw no evidence of disabilism, overt or covert, but I agree there was overt ageism and not from the people whose posts have been deleted.

What I would say, is that age usually brings disability of some kind. Most commonly that is impaired mobility, so there is an overlap between ageism and disablism in the lack of ground-level single-storey housing provision.

One could argue that there is mass disability discrimination in the lack of suitable housing provision for the elderly. The 1930s, 1950s and 1960s saw bungalows included in housing projects alongside terraced, semi-detached and detached houses but that is no longer the case.

We know why it is. Land prices, construction company profits, the cost of some infrastructure falling to the latter and so on.

Once again, it’s a disconnect between the kinds of homes people need and what is actually built. Market forces, lack of planning control and the pursuit of profit is driving what it built rather than what is needed across all demographics including people increasingly disabled by age.

Wish I could remember what I wrote that warranted deletion! I have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

One could argue that there is mass disability discrimination in the lack of suitable housing provision for the elderly. The 1930s, 1950s and 1960s saw bungalows included in housing projects alongside terraced, semi-detached and detached houses but that is no longer the case
Not the “quick buck” developers seem to be intent on making.
I don’t wish to be shot down for sounding as if I do not support the need for housing for young families because of course I do, but what does happen when people retire, possibly with no other income than their State pension, and certainly not in a position to “cash in”on a vastly increased value on their current house which may be expensive to heat or insulate?
“Affordable housing” is not necessarily age-specific.
Better housing provision for the elderly would almost certainly free up properties which are more suitable for families, but we are not a powerful enough lobby are we?

Thanks, Foxygloves. As I was describing pages back, the generational log jam in the housing market that Mature Times was discussing a decade ago. Nothing has changed.

We should be a powerful lobby. I just checked 2021 census numbers for England and Wales. Over 27 million people aged 60 and over. 18 million of those were in the 60-74 bracket, people who will be facing the physical challenges of older age if they aren't already, as in the case of OP and her husband. People are being pushed to work longer and for those in physical jobs, that will take a toll on already ageing joints.

Older people might be incentised to move from homes that are now too large and expensive to maintain but there has to be somewhere to go to. We have to start with a radical change of policy about planning.

This 2021 study by the University of Lincolshire into ageing without children is a good summation of the issues (not just housing) that face everybody including people who may have children but who cannot or do not want to rely on them for support.

www.tnlcommunityfund.org.uk/media/insights/documents/awoc-briefing-report-final.pdf?mtime=20211210092206&focal=none

Participants pointed to their perception of a lack of ‘age friendly’ housing in rural towns and villages and especially housing which recognised diversity in for example, the availability of family to provide practical support. Extra care housing or housing cooperatives were identified as potentially creative solutions not just for people ageing without children but which could meet the housing needs of diverse populations of older people.

We should be a powerful lobby

But we aren’t.
The modern cult of ‘Youth” has put paid to that, although the fashion of writing off anybody over 40 let alone 50 sits curiously with the frequent appeals for retirees to return to the workforce.
Have they ever tried even getting anybody to look at a CV if you are over 40?
Apart from Joe Biden.

Better housing provision for the elderly would almost certainly free up properties which are more suitable for families, but we are not a powerful enough lobby are we?

Many of us are still living in houses we bought (with mortgages) when we were bringing up a family and would be happy to move to a slightly smaller, but not cramped, property and yes, release family homes for those with families.

But there is an absolute dearth of suitable properties.

There is a lot of house building going on in this country so why is there such a lack of suitable homes for older people and for those young families stuck in terrible conditions in rented properties?

But we could be if we were pro-active early on and lobbied central and local governements to do something. Again, in the UoL study it says:

Most people migrated to the county in their 50s and early 60s in good health and preparing for an active and busy retirement. When asked, few participants recalled giving any consideration in their move to the potential future implications of changing health, mobility or developing care and support needs.

We should know by now that we cannot rely on governments to plan for our needs unless we start pressurising them to do so. The controversies over pensions and healthcare are clear evidence that.

I've been nagging local councillors to do something. There is now a co-housing project in the pipeline. It's small and just tinkering around the edges of a much larger problem but it is a start.

There are a lot of retirement villages here which have quite pleasant little houses. The problem is that you buy a house but you still have to pay a monthly maintenance fee that increases year by year. My Dad lived in one when he was alive ,after he emigrated but not my cup of tea.

There are a lot of retirement villages popping up round here too. The local authorities are building them too in the form of passivhaus, which I had not heard of before but seems a really interesting concept which pairs affordability with environmentally friendly house building

Older people might be incentised to move from homes that are now too large and expensive to maintain but there has to be somewhere to go to. We have to start with a radical change of policy about planning.

But who decides whethr a house is too large or too expensive to maintain? We live in a large 4 bedroomed house and us every room. We are thinking of downsizing, to a house with a smaller garden but we do not plan to reduce the size of house we buy much.

The peoblem with most retirement complexes is that, apart from the maintenance charges and the share of the capital they take when you sell, and those are both major disincentives. They type of accommodation they offer is so small and so uniform. One or two bedroomed flats or bungalows. most of them quite small. I am sure that this accommodation is just what some people want, but others want larger accommodation, more bedrooms, more living space, more rooms. If some one is a maker or do-er they may want a shed to work in, or a sewing room, or music room.

The current range of accommodation offered to older people is restricted both in tenure and size.

But who decides whethr a house is too large or too expensive to maintain? We live in a large 4 bedroomed house and us every room. We are thinking of downsizing, to a house with a smaller garden but we do not plan to reduce the size of house we buy much
We tend to spread around too although we don't use all the bedrooms unless visitors come.

I suppose we could get used to it, but so many properties considered suitable for older people consist of sitting room, kitchen, two bedrooms and a bathroom.

We also live in a technically too big house.
We use all of it except one room which is waiting for redecoration!

Monica But who decides whether a house is too large or too expensive to maintain?

The occupant(s) of course. You are using the term "we" so I assume you still have a partner, two incomes and a need to accommodate two people's belongings and occupations.

Things change when that is no longer the case. When one partner dies and the widow (or widower's) income is reduced, the cost of running the home, especially a large home, starts to become disproportionate. The only concession is a 25% reduction in council tax. For an average large F banded home that might be about £700-£800 p.a. but as I said upthread, you've potentially lost the person who used to do small jobs around the house and you are now paying for those at £200 a day. My late husband would tackle small to medium plumbing, electrical, carpentry and decorating jobs that I neither have the skills nor confidence to do (or do alone). And that is when homes can start to fall into disrepair for those who can't afford to spend a week or more's pension on a day's labour.

The older someone gets, especially those who have no family for support (as I don't), just the thought of what is involved in moving can seem overwhelming. For someone with impaired mobility, someone who perhaps doesn't drive, simply going to look at potentially suitable properties is problematic.

When I talk about incentives, I don't just mean financial lures. Perhaps assistance would be a better choice of word.

I'd be very interested to hear from someone on GN, someone who is disabled, who doesn't drive and who managed to move house without family support because that is the reality facing a lot of older people who would like to move to smaller property assuming they could find something suitable.

According to Age UK, more than 2 million people in England over the age of 75 live alone, and more than a million older people say they go over a month without speaking to a friend, neighbour or family member. Who would help them if they wanted to move?

For Callistemon -- and your "what are you talking about - I didn't ask for help from you". YOU quoted from my comment about a couple of Bungs (one near Chobham) and said "Oh, I did like Chobham and Windlesham when we were house hunting in the SE but it was just a bit too far out for DH's work and relatively expensive compared to some other areas". Did you forget?

All I meant was that your experiences in that part of Surrey were particular to you, that's all. And my comment was NOT "an attack", merely a reply comment.

For Lou in GN-HQ -- I see you've knocked off lots of comments, and say "look at guidelines". But why not actually tell people WHY that comment was deemed a no-no? I've no idea what people put that was naughty??!

Sorry Germanshepherdsmum, here I've been praising your comments (here and on other threads) and I see you used gutter language to 'answer' my simple query?

I've checked RusBun's posts, and STILL cannot see where the Epsom location was used, though hidden away on one page was somebody else who referred to Epsom, I'm guessing that stemmed from another thread at some point -- which if true I'm afraid my lack of COAFCB has indeed been a hindrance. Sorry.

Much of let's see 11 pages now are actually it seems sidetracks re washing and drying (or at one point, false teeth?!!), not about the original topic, so I fail to see WHY I should indeed "RTFT" as you so charmingly put it?

Oh, and as you're jumping to conclusions about "busy", I was merely pointing out that it would likely be a waste of time, as indeed it transpired, with much of now 11 pages wandering off to discuss those sidetrack subjects.

Nothing I put about me being busy with several jobs should have been taken to be any reference to how occupied others are or are not -- clearly it's quite logical to realise that some people may have little time to spare, but a decent subset have all day to browse these threads for info and/or amusement. That seems to include YOU, as the logical view would be that you already knew what was in the FT before you suggested that I should RTFT?

In the brief time I've been acquainted with GN I've looked at only a few topics, and commented on 3 or 4 if the subject in the email looked of possible interest. Hope that helps.

ALSO for Germanshepherdsmum, sorry, I had to look up what CBA and RTFT meant, and Google's first suggestion for RTFT was rather rude, hence my first reply!

BUT I now see a further idea that the F might well mean 'Full', so apologies for my initial response?!

Caravansera You completely misinterpreted my post and clearly only read the first para. The 2 posts below my post from other people make it clear that they did understand my point, so its meaning should have been quite clear.

To try to put it in simpler terms. I am at one with you, the person/people who decide whether a house is too big/suitable are the older people living in them, but far too often the people pontificating on this subject are younger people, who have absolutely no understanding or appreciation of how accommodation is used when you are retired and home based.

You have only to look at the limited range of accommodation, designed for older people and its containment within retirement complexes to see that decisions about housing for older people is being taken out of the hands of older people and decided, no doubt in their best interests, supposedly, by much younger people.

I know that for some older people these small one or two bedroomed properties are ideal, but for many more older people, they are not, nor does everyone want to live in a complex with lots of other people like them. many of us like to live where our neighbours can be any age.

I have quite a number of older friends and family members who have moved in recent years, to down size or to move nearer their families. Not one of them has bought a retirement flat. Mostly they have chosento buy 3 and 4 bedroomed 'family' houses on new estates. Obviously, Caravansera the property they have bought has been dictated by their financial resources.

The other aspect that these researchers also ignore is the number of much younger singles and couples who also choose to live in three or four bedroomed 'family' homes. In fact I have yet to meet a young single person or couple who did not aspire to 3 or 4 bedroomed accommodation, even though they may have started their home owning career in a 1 bedroomed.
flat.

Why do those who are so bothered about older people living in homes deemed to big for them, fail to also call out the members of their own generation who are living in family homes that were they 25 years older would be deemed to big for them.