Pros and cons of ‘retirement’ properties. Advice please friends.

Toetoe

I'm very interested in reading all your comments because I have said I would move into an over 60s retirement flat for my final move . I'm worried about moving into an ordinary flat due to poor soundproofing and possibly bad neighbours / parties etc . A friend lives in a nice block on ground floor and the when the upstairs neighbours are in you can hear everything , it's like having someone in your bedroom upstairs. Luckily for friend the lady above is quiet but it's rented and will change . Another friend has horrendous neighbours into drink and drugs constant visitors and noise. So it's a dilemma what to do .

I bought a (non-retirement) flat in a private block where all the flat owners own the lease, which stipulates 'owner-occupier only' - so we're not allowed to rent them out. We pay £125 per month service charge which covers the usual gardeners, window cleaners, communal area cleaners etc and we pay a property management company to handle all that for us. The rest of the service charge is used for upkeep of the building. So, for example, we're halfway through having the pointing on the back of the building replaced and the front of the building (which is rendered) was painted last year.

I think you're going to hear noise from neighbours in any type of flat - it's just part and parcel of flat-dwelling. I suppose the advantage of that is, if you fell and couldn't get up, there's more chance of someone hearing your cries for help than if you lived in another type of property, so swings and roundabouts. Any problems with nuisance neighbours can also be passed on to the management 'committee' if you feel unable to handle them yourself.

I would compile a really extensive list of questions before you start to look at any flats and make sure you get answers to them all, either by asking via the estate agent who is handling the sale or via your solicitor during the conveyancing process.

Hth!

I think neighbours are a matter of luck. Mil was very happy in her retirement home for many years but one of the flats changed hands when someone died and the woman who moved in continually stalked Mil, who was a very kind well mannered woman. I'm afraid it made Mil's life a misery. Mil was a very pragmatic person and seemed to take the deterioration and deaths of those who had been friends since moving into the flat in her stride but constantly trying to dodge her neighbour wore her down.

Toetoe another problem about private flats is the problem of flooding from the flat above. It can be very time consuming and expensive to trace and mend leaks when the occupant in the above flat refuses to take proper and speedy action.

I'm very interested in reading all your comments because I have said I would move into an over 60s retirement flat for my final move . I'm worried about moving into an ordinary flat due to poor soundproofing and possibly bad neighbours / parties etc . A friend lives in a nice block on ground floor and the when the upstairs neighbours are in you can hear everything , it's like having someone in your bedroom upstairs. Luckily for friend the lady above is quiet but it's rented and will change . Another friend has horrendous neighbours into drink and drugs constant visitors and noise. So it's a dilemma what to do .

Sorry to hijack this thread but I've often thought about downsizing to a park home, these developments seem to be popping up everywhere. So there must be a market for them. You get a new home, fully fitted with garden space and they tend to be gated. Has anyone had any good or bad experiences living in one? Sorry again for hijacking

Just a word of caution - St Albans is a very beautiful and desirable location but depending on where you live, the pavements can be a trip hazard and are poorly maintained. If you drive still I guess that is not a worry. It is also very hilly. There are other locations with well maintained pavements within driving distance of St Albans.

Don't do it. Apart from all the reasons posted here, you can't always rely on the staff. I have contact with a number of residents in Extra Care Apartments nearby. The number of staff there has been reduced. Although some wear pendants in case they fall, the staff do not always respond in a timely
way. Although the windows are supposed to be cleaned, this rarely happens. Thorough cleaning within the building is intermittent.
The residents formed an Association to air their concerns, and to query some aspects of the annual budget. They were told they 'weren't allowed'.
This development is part of a well known chain and makes huge profits. It uses a highly sophisticated advertising programme but life in these
places may turn in to disappointment and financial loss.

Just thought of another couple of things...

I know of one retirement property management company that doesn't allow residents to pay their service charges on a monthly basis. They have to pay for 6 months of service charges in one payment, in advance.

I also know of a company with a call centre that is no longer based in the UK. I see regular reports of appalling service being given and additional fees being added to bills for very minor infringements such as a payment that is late by only a few days.

Just things to be aware of/questions to ask during the flat-hunting process.

I can't really offer any insight into the specifics of 'retirement' properties, but thank all of those who have given us such insight.
Although I don't live near St. Albans, I did once, and have friends and relatives there for some years. As you have a son there, you will know what a great place it is, with a smashing market, and lots of lively things going on. The Hetfordshire countryside, often overlooked, is lovely.
You don't say what interests you, but you can get the Thameslink line straight into London, and you can get out at London Bridge to go to The Globe, The Tate, all the South Bank stuff.
I wish you all the best there.

knspol

Very interesting thread as I have seriously thought that this kind of development might be my next move. I like the idea of the social aspect but at the same time (after reading several threads on this site) dread the prospect of loud or intrusive neighbours maybe because of deafness or dementia etc. The threat of increasing service charges is another concern but many more areas to consider after reading this thread.

There is an 'etiquette' involved in living in a flat or apartment and, unfortunately, not everyone has it! (Or, in the case of dementia sufferers, they may have forgotten it.)

Very interesting thread as I have seriously thought that this kind of development might be my next move. I like the idea of the social aspect but at the same time (after reading several threads on this site) dread the prospect of loud or intrusive neighbours maybe because of deafness or dementia etc. The threat of increasing service charges is another concern but many more areas to consider after reading this thread.

Was very interested reading all of the comments because we are at the stage of beginning to discuss these options ourselves. A friend has just bought a park home and I would appreciate any comments and advice regarding this option. There are some beautiful ones around but I am very cautious so would like to hear from anyone who has any experience. I also love the Alexa idea and would never have thought about it!!,

cc

I should add that our central heating and hot water are provided communally so we have no servicing or breakdown costs.

These weren't provided at my development. The laundry facilities were, however, free at the point of use. (Obviously the residents still paid for them via their service charge.)

Seajaye

Leases of retirement flats are generally onerous with occupation covenants linked to the leasehold owners health. The lease makes it clear they are not care homes, and the warden is there for occasional assistance on not but not any personal care and there can be the right for forfeitures of the lease if not complied with. I would not recommend one unless you need all the services, want to use the communal facilities, and are willing to pay handsomely fof them.

I definitely considered myself to be a property manager, rather than a 'warden'. My main job was the smooth running of the development. I kept an eye on all the residents and made sure they were safe to the best of my ability. If I had concerns about them, I would contact the family (or, failing that, Social Services).

If a resident had an accident, I could offer first aid, would wait with them for the ambulance and make sure they were safe whilst we waited but we were told not to lift residents off the floor or do anything that could endanger our own health and wellbeing.

mabon1 my mum’s development has lovely gardens with weekly gardeners but the residents are encouraged to help out if they want . Every September one lady offers to plant bulbs for people .
The ground floor flats have a patio with room for a small table and chairs and pots.

My mum lives in a retirement flat and has done for 9 years now. We were aware of the pitfalls prior to buying , such as community charges and charges on selling . Her charges aren’t silly money .
One if the reasons for choosing a retirement flat was that there was very little choice of normal flats in the area we wanted . It’s mostly houses and bungalows.
Mums flat is 2 minutes walk to a high street with shops , chemists, post office and bank and 15 minutes to a GP . It’s also on a bus route .
Mums happy there as she meets people , even if it’s just going out to the bins or the laundry or the car park . There’s a manager 9-5 Monday to Friday and alarm pulls in the flat . Every morning she presses a button by her entry phone to say she’s ok.
The development is gated so she feels secure even though she’s on the ground floor and it’s quiet .
My Nan was in a normal flat and had a huge problem with noisy neighbours. Even though she owned her flat , some of the flats were rented out by the council.
When we get to selling her flat , I may think differently but for now it’s all positive.

Leases of retirement flats are generally onerous with occupation covenants linked to the leasehold owners health. The lease makes it clear they are not care homes, and the warden is there for occasional assistance on not but not any personal care and there can be the right for forfeitures of the lease if not complied with. I would not recommend one unless you need all the services, want to use the communal facilities, and are willing to pay handsomely fof them.

mabon1

My friend sold her beautiful home and now lives in an one bedroomed apartment. It is lovely, the only reason I wouldn't buy one is that I want a garden. She has quite a lot of equity from the sale and purchase, is living a good life. Her maintenance charge is £3,500.00.

Many of these developments have extensive gardens and even though they employ gardeners to do the bulk of the work, residents are encouraged to get involved in their upkeep. This has the added advantage that you can still enjoy gardening if that's always been a hobby but, if you become less able as you get older, you can withdraw from the gardening (or just do what you can) without the garden going to rack and ruin. And you've still got somewhere to sit on a nice day!

I should add that our central heating and hot water are provided communally so we have no servicing or breakdown costs.

SewnSew

Selling a retirement flat is a nightmare. One well-known company owning these blocks makes it very difficult, complex and expensive - they charge a percentage of the value of the property, plus for "management packs" for both buyer and seller solicitors (at £365 each) a "contingency fee" (for my sister's 1-bed flat this was £1,800) plus of course the management, ground rent, etc fees. In all it cost nearly £20,000 to sell my sister's flat after she died and we lost £50,000 on the price as well. It wasn't a particularly valuable flat in the first place! Do message me if you want to know which company it was.

Yes to all these problems. These retirement flats just are not worth the money either in what you lose when you sell or what you pay annually.
We live in an "ordinary" flat (share of freehold) where the charges are high but the estate is well managed and the flats sell very quickly. If necessary we could sell and move to somewhere with care, but we do have a big ensuite spare room and could have living in care here.

Retirement apartments/flats here in Canada are all rentals. They provide meal options and all other services are provided on an optional basis with a price list.
Most do not allow anything but a couple of small appliances. Some have in suite clothes washer & drier but many have machines on each floor which you pay to use.
A friend of mine and her husband who is quite frail just moved into a lovely one. She is happy not to have to cook and says the meals are amazingly good.
The social aspect is very very important as we age.

My friend sold her beautiful home and now lives in an one bedroomed apartment. It is lovely, the only reason I wouldn't buy one is that I want a garden. She has quite a lot of equity from the sale and purchase, is living a good life. Her maintenance charge is £3,500.00.

And another thought...

A lot of these retirement developments were built 30 or more years ago and they were not designed with mobility scooter charging in mind. There are often no scooter-charging facilities available unless you live on the ground floor.

Thanks SewnSew (what a great name!) yes, We have decided to give retirement flats a miss, some in St Albans that we’ve looked at have been on the market for several years. harris27, thanks for your good wishes. Teach, your insight is invaluable so thanks.
Thank you all for just being there, isn’t Gransnet wonderful.

Another thought:

Sometimes the lifts in these developments can break down and be out of action for weeks at a time. The (normally, extremely reliable) lift in my development was out of order for a month whilst we waited for parts to arrive and some residents were very inconvenienced by this. If you struggle with stairs (or think you may do in the future) look for a ground floor flat.