Why are tradesmen so unreliable

It's all about "Chiefs and Indians" at the end of the day, the chiefs do the organizing, Indians do the work.

Not quite sure what you mean by that David49, who exactly are the Chiefs and who are the Indians?

The tradespeople we know tend to run their own businesses and are hands-on themselves. Their employees are well paid too.

Allira

^It seems as though the idea is to train up a class of people who accept that they have to work for low pay, and be denied higher education. No wonder young people aren’t queuing up to qualify to unbung toilets or lay bricks in all weathers.^

The plumbers, carpenters and electricians we know seem to be doing very well indeed!

It's all about "Chiefs and Indians" at the end of the day, the chiefs do the organizing, Indians do the work. It's not possible to have a productive economy any other way. There are also administrators, paper shufflers, that regulate laws and rules, what Indians produce has to pay their wages as well.
With AI we are going to need a lot less administrators many more productive technicians, it's well beyond time that the education system changed.

Good, but the way many people complain about ‘extortionate rates’ and post on local FB pages looking for people to undercut established firms it’s a miracle any of them make a living!

It seems as though the idea is to train up a class of people who accept that they have to work for low pay, and be denied higher education. No wonder young people aren’t queuing up to qualify to unbung toilets or lay bricks in all weathers.

The plumbers, carpenters and electricians we know seem to be doing very well indeed!

I think a lot has to do with the way many people still assume that tradespeople are failed academics or (unlike their own children or grandchildren) are somehow ‘not suited’ to university. On the one hand there are arguments about how so few graduates get so-called ‘graduate jobs’ but on the other that tradespeople without degrees charge too much.

I Agree Doodledog
Aka intellectual snobbery.

I'm pleased that DGS has just achieved an apprenticeship. He could hae gone to university with his results but chose this route because this is his ambition. It will take four years to train, a mix of college and on-the-job training.

I think a lot has to do with the way many people still assume that tradespeople are failed academics or (unlike their own children or grandchildren) are somehow ‘not suited’ to university. On the one hand there are arguments about how so few graduates get so-called ‘graduate jobs’ but on the other that tradespeople without degrees charge too much.

If scarcity (as was the case with graduates until the expansion of education in the 60s and 90s) means that graduates should earn more, and having more of them means that they don’t all get ‘graduate jobs’, then why shouldn’t a shortage of trades mean that they should charge more? It seems as though the idea is to train up a class of people who accept that they have to work for low pay, and be denied higher education. No wonder young people aren’t queuing up to qualify to unbung toilets or lay bricks in all weathers.

We have exactly the same problem is Australia so it’s not just Brexit.

😩😂😂 David49

MT62

Always on blinkin holiday- no wonder with what they charge 57VRS

I mentioned fishing up thread, a builder I've used went on a fishing holiday to Thailand, met a local woman, now goes fishing 3 times a year for a month each time.

keepingquiet

Too few tradesmen for too many customers.
I blame Brexit.

People seem to blame Btexit for everthing. Yes. a lot of decent hard working Eastern European tradesman, especially Poles
did return home after making good money in the UK.

Some UK Builders said that they being undercut by these Poles..l think that was mainly sour grapes really. They had been over charging and taking the piss fir years and charged whatever they felt like.

Plus many yonger men no longer want to work in the building trade and do manual work

Such as
Yes Madame

We will be out asap. But we are very busy at the mo..So we will have to send our energency crew out to you

How much will it cost?
Very reasonable.
Usual call our charge of £135 .Minimum Labour Charge of £65 per hour.
Then ofcourse we have the cost of parts as well.

So the poor customer is chatged over £200 to replace a washer on a tap.
The part would probably cost less than two pounds fifty from B&Q.

Has for Brexit we probably got out in time. The EU is in big trouble and experts forecasr it is the process of breaking up. Won't last much longe.

Always on blinkin holiday- no wonder with what they charge 57VRS

My huband and I are suffering from this at the moment . Our builder was brilliant and did some alterations for us in 2020/2021 . Did a grand job.
In 2024 we found our 2 velux windows in the bedrooms needed changing ( leeking) and also we wanted our front window and front door changing . He came and did his usual goid job for the latter 2 things . In the meantime we also had the new velux windows delivered and put in our garage with also another velux that we wanted putting in the front of the house roof . Since then he has just given us excuses , eg on holiday , going on holiday , its too wet , too busy with other jobs etc etc. Totally getting fed up of it . Its delaying us make a decision whether we want to move or not. Also We need new carpets and decorating doing but didn’t want to do that until the mess of window changing is done with.
Trying to convince other half to ditch him and get some one else but he’s loath to do that.

Oh yes KQ you are right a lot probably did go back.
The shortage of trades people during Covid, meant they could charge extortionate amounts & of course be choosey about the work.

Knittypamela

We booked a painter to do our hall last September. He has promised over and over that he will do it "next week ". Next week never comes. He says he has bought our paint so we can't go elsewhere. There aren't enough tradesmen these days.

You can. If he has paid for it, that is his problem. If you've paid him the money for it, just ask for it back. Write to him, give him a chance to do the work in a given time frame and tell him that time is of the essence. You do not have to be held to ransom.

After relocating, I always ask for personal recommendations for any tradespeople I need. I then check them out on trust pilot or similar. I have found a wonderful plumber, electrician, gardener and handyman in that way.

We booked a painter to do our hall last September. He has promised over and over that he will do it "next week ". Next week never comes. He says he has bought our paint so we can't go elsewhere. There aren't enough tradesmen these days.

It always seems to me that tradesmen often give a service which is reasonable on the first or second time of doing the job but after that, it all deteriorates.
Recently I had a well recommended German carpenter out to fit a new loft hatch. He knew all the building codes, decried British Cowboys and was really careful to make sure he quoted for everything the job needed. However, when he turned up and cut into the loft, he found that the pipework was in the way of the proposed new hatch. I got back to find that he had cut the hatch way but a third and now we have a brand new, totally unusable hatch because it is too small for anybody to get into. If he had rung me, I would have got my husband to re-route the pipes that day.
I still see posts recommending him and I am beginning to think I might have "sucker" written across my forehead.

My DGS is doing an apprenticeship as a car mechanic . We will always have cars so will always need mechanics . I tried to persuade him to be a plumber but he wasn’t having any of it 😂. We will always need plumbers too .

Brexit, Covid and too many going to university rather than trade apprenticeships are the causes. And of course tradesmen want the most profitable jobs, not the fiddly little jobs.

This is why we need to encourage more youngsters to do apprenticeships rather than go to university to do a Mickey Mouse degree and come out with massive debts and no job.

keepingquiet

Too few tradesmen for too many customers.
I blame Brexit.

Yes we had Polish handymen in this area before Brexit they went home during Covid and didn't return, the migrant workers we get now don't have the skills.
Also independant tradesmen are limiting their work to stay below the VAT and Tax thresholds, so they only work 3 or 4 days a week.
If they go over the tax threshold the government take 40% plus if they go over both it's 60%, so they go fishing.

I always go on recommendations and did so in this case. A few people recommended them and initially they were fine. I think as has been mentioned, there are not enough qualified tradesmen so they spread themselves thinly and then can choose the jobs that are easy and well paid. It’s the fobbing off I object to. Keeps you in the loop incase they get a quiet spell. They know you will wait because you have no one else. If I was young, I’d definitely train as a tradesperson. People always need plumbers, electricians etc.

But this has been a problem for years! I remember my mother getting exceedingly stressed because a builder disappeared mid-job about 50 years ago.

And there was a TV show, which often dealt surg unfair customers of tradesmen.

So I'm doubting Brexit is to blame but I guess it helps some to suggest it.

I think it is unfair to say they charge extortionate rates because they can. The price of materials and labour have gone up massively and they still need to make a living. The trouble with a leak is that it is a fiddly small job that takes time, time that would eat into a bigger more productive job. The answer is too many jobs too few tradespeople. I too blame Brexit!

MT62

Why Brexit? I think they charge extortionate amounts because they can, therefore more choosey, I partly blame Covid, due to lockdown many people decided time to get jobs done. I’ve never seen as many skips & loaders around our way as during Covid.
I am lucky my husband can do everything, & I absolutely appreciate that he can as you never know the minute when he can’t.

Brexit because many tradesmen (and women) went back home, mostly to eastern Europe.

Now we have a shortage surprise surprise and no funding for proper training for young people to take their place.