I have just been reading another article talking about how the price of retirement flats drops when they come back on the market after the person who bought it new either dies or moves into care

I think in answer to Monica’s question, the flats do appeal to mostly ladies who are widowed. Certainly at MILs development 80% were ladies. There were a few couples and one or two men.

The service charges can and do put some off but equally those who can afford them do so. But, they’re not for everybody.

The main problem with buying secondhand is that most of the residents are much older than the person looking to move in. Whereas in a newly built facility, most of the new inhabitants are a similar age. Mil lived very happily in a McCarthy and Stone flat but aged 96 she had a bad dose of norovirus and was basically put into quarantine. She was totally without anyone to care for her until I went down to sleep on her floor and take care of her. At that point she decided to come to live with us, which was a huge relief. It took 3 years to sell her flat and she paid the monthly charge for all that time, getting absolutely nothing for it. She sold for less than she had paid for the flat 15 years before but she had been happy there. However, as time had gone on, her neighbours got older, many became quite reclusive or died and flats were difficult to sell so remained empty. With empty flats, services became poorer and more expensive and the everyday experience of living there became less appealing. There is absolutely no way I would buy one of these places.

It's the expensive year on year management fees.

God's waiting room? No thank you.

It's not a care home, Norah. I had various expectations in my head when I went visiting my friend what it would be like, and of course there will be a % who are getting close to not managing, but what I found even tho it was 75 and over were a lot of very bright buttons, ex teachers, university lecturers, zipping in and out: some sitting around nattering together, most with wi fi in flats.

What I am wary of, having lived in a block of flats before, is the pros and cons of getting along with neighbours and any cliques, but reading about some GN's difficulties with difficult neighbours, its not exactly unusual, is it?

The re-sell problems are just as described, except that as things stand locally, there are not proliferations of them, its not a "retirement area", and if you are canny, you get one of the 8 or so flats with the lovely sunny views on the right floor, that sell the most quickly.

Its one of those things I should have thought about 11 years ago when buying this house: its great, I could stay here - but without a car, no shops, its a car to food, GP, cafes, pool, any friends, everything, and family are 3 hours away anyway.

Thank you, I know it's not a care home.

I wouldn’t touch one with the proverbial……

Norah

It seems to me if a person buys new, everything is perfect and will 'see them out' - perhaps the ultimate downsizing. They also may not care about the value after death - no pockets in a shroud.

If they die in it, that’s one thing. Selling the place will be a problem for their heirs.

The real problems occur when someone has to move to a care home, they can’t sell the place for anything like what they paid for it, plus it can easily sit on the market for a couple of years - and the hefty service charges still need to be paid.

Personally I’d avoid any McCarthy & Stone property like the plague. If I ever want to move to a flat, it’ll just be a normal one.
My mother did once look at one, but she wasn’t mad keen anyway - the sitting room windows were far too high to see out of if you were sitting down - and she walked out in disgust after asking the salesperson why there was no dishwasher.
‘Oh, they didn’t think the old people would want them.’ 😂

My mum looked at one and noticed there was no washing machine! When she asked about it she was told she’d get 2 hours a week on a rota to use the laundry room. A recipe for disaster if ever I heard one. She bought a bungalow.

Hmm, I'll have to have a good think.

Good point about the care home fees selling off aspect, but tbh, I don't have enough money for top up fees for one anyway whichever way the cookie crumbles and one can stay longer in a McCarthy and Stone than Independent living .

Maybe if you are the sort of person that doesn't mind being alone all day with no company in a bungalow except for carers that would suit but I need human contact.

Just wandering down for an afternoon coffee even in a powered wheelchair makes all the difference when all you need is a "good afternoon" or even a conversation on politics or culture or whatever is going.
The one I know has Juliet balconies and views for miles over trees and gardens and is sunny and south facing. there is room for a washing machine but a other of people there prefer the launderette and of course you can pay for it to be done. this sort of thing is what counts in indecent living for longer, as you can do less, people can do that bit more.

If I thought my family were able to be more involved then it might be different, but they have my DGD who is so very disabled she will never ever be able to live independently herself, I have to be realistic, they will either be carers or paying very heavily for a decent care home for her.

I said, "counts in indecent living"

Sadly any older person option might not quite run to supplying that as well

I agree with Wyllow that these schemes have got a bad press on this thread. To add to the advantages of not being alone is the solid plus of no house maintenance.

The service charge element sounds exploitative and needs regulating. Maybe it should be halved after one year to encourage the management companies to market the resale flats as assiduously as they do the new ones because I think that is prob the root of the problem..

There is a McCartney & Stone block about 8 yrs old half a mile away with service charges close to £10k a year that about a third are for sale, yet more properties are being built nearby.

They are selling a dream, security, socializing, pleasant surroundings, someone to call if you need help, they do provide that and it costs a great deal to provide. Im sure they take your old home on part exchanges, its so easy, so you sign on the dotted line without realizing how the cost mounts up over the years.

Adult children should taken more interest what parents are taking on when they get older, an over priced retirement bungalow or an annex on their house is likely to be a much better financial decision than a leased retirement apartment with service charges. Locally there are very few alternatives freehold, anything that looked affordable had a short lease which would be very difficult to sell in 10 yrs time.

I don't feel a lot of sympathy for families that haven't taken responsibility for their parents retirement, when mum or dad commit to a retirement apartment they are spending YOUR inheritance, don't complain afterwards.

My mother moved into a McCarthy and Stone flat in the 6 years before she died. It was a very nice 2 bedroom flat with a private terrace as well as the communal garden. It was the best thing for her. The service charge was high but included a manager as well as general maintenance. She enjoyed the company and support of the other residents. We sold it within 3 months after she died. No doubt we lost money but it was my mum's money really and it was worth it to see her happy in her last few years. I would not hesitate to move into something similar when and if the time comes.

My mum and dad moved into one together in 1990, the following year my dad died. Mum lived on there for a further 20 years. It was bought from new and as somebody else has said the residents were all similar age and it was very sociable, however, as time went on it was like having two generations together and there was a lot of resentment from the new ones who realised they had moved in with very elderly occupants. Constant ambulances and carers coming and going. We took about a year to sell when mum died and she held the Freehold of her flat. We made no loss at that time. I think the charges and the memory of her later problems has put me off but I am sure I would enjoy the company. A friend is sorting out renting for her sister so I shall be interested to see how that goes.

David49 Older people are sentient independent beings. While some older people do have some mental and/or physical decline in old age, plenty don't and would uickly see off any child that tried to advise or guide them into alternative accommodation to that they had chosen whether retirement bungalow or major building project (what we have done).

Our daughter did, briefly, sing the praises of a couple of new estates on the outskirts of town, but with limited facilities compared with the town centre advantages of our project house, she soon decided it was up to us to make our own decisions.

David, that is really not taking account realities for some. You say Adult children "should" take responsibility. But I'd just given an example of how sometimes you do have to take difficult decisions yourself.

And that includes having to take care of house maintenance repairs and so on, supposing one either cannot do this, or chose not to because it takes up all the time and energy and one has other things to do with life?

And you dont seem to have heard people talk about their different feelings. If you were alone, you might be happy with a bungalow somewhere both security and people wise. but others choose to want company.

And I would choose to have 24/7 management there, which is partly what you are paying for.

Where I do feel is that they vary a lot because a lot depends on the quality of the management. there is a big difference between managers that sit on their bum and those who organise this or that for people that chose to take part. But say if your boiler goes wrong, tho you pay, they will get the person in if you cannot:

I'm not sure yet of course ...but there is one more factor: money. Affording a bungalow, all the maintenance in terms of gardening, roof, anything outside, is expensive.

Thats interesting, MOnica, no one has attempted to meddle. 🤔

With 24/7 management a couple of whom one is frail can stay together for longer which is beyond price in itself and into the bargain puts off the cost of care home fees.

There's a lot of clever marketing & leafleting of the new developments too. Targetted to older people in big homes, who've probably been bogged down over the years with repairing this, getting someone in to do the garden etc etc.Never getting the whole place straight, always something left to redecorate etc.

Siting them in "nice" areas locally & promising they'll make the conveyancing easy. I can see why they are tempting.

valdali

There's a lot of clever marketing & leafleting of the new developments too. Targetted to older people in big homes, who've probably been bogged down over the years with repairing this, getting someone in to do the garden etc etc.Never getting the whole place straight, always something left to redecorate etc.

Siting them in "nice" areas locally & promising they'll make the conveyancing easy. I can see why they are tempting.

But that does not answer the uestion why people wll happily buy these flats new but not on the resale market.

MOnica are resale flats as easy to hear about as new? If there are still some new flats available the management can have no interest in marketing resale ones for less.

The simple answer is cost Monica. People who buy new have the means to afford the fees. They want to be first in the apartment. Few want to buy second hand which means selling the property themselves, via an estate agent.

If you buy new, they help you declutter, buy the old home from you, arrange the removals and moving in, it’s all easy for elderly people recently bereaved who do not want the hassle of doing it all themselves.

When MiL sold to McCarthy and Stone, from memory there were three valuations from local estate agents. They did meet near enough that price and bearing in mind her house needed modernisation they were happy with it. The declutterers came and also packers on the day. She moved in. There was help unpacking. She ate in the restaurant, used the very large washing room with 20 industrial washing machines and tumble dryers. She loved the organised entertainment. She made many friends. The GP and pharmacy were literally across the road. Sainsbury’s was five minutes walk away. I could go on and on. It worked for her, 84 years old when she moved in and died at 90. It was a happy ending for her. She also had plenty of visitors. The security of it was also very appealing to elderly ladies living alone.

M0nica

valdali

There's a lot of clever marketing & leafleting of the new developments too. Targetted to older people in big homes, who've probably been bogged down over the years with repairing this, getting someone in to do the garden etc etc.Never getting the whole place straight, always something left to redecorate etc.

Siting them in "nice" areas locally & promising they'll make the conveyancing easy. I can see why they are tempting.

But that does not answer the uestion why people wll happily buy these flats new but not on the resale market.

Monica, what do YOU think may be answer to your question?