employment tribunal

thanks Gracesmum. I just wish it was tomorrow and we could get in there and fight it out! but it is getting near the end either way. It just seems wrong that some employers can treat you so badly and then make this process so difficult as well. I suppose DP is also more demoralised by his lack of success in finding another job. Thanks for your support x

When I think of what you are going through it brings back that sick feeling inside (even though I knew we were in the right and thanks to jeni had a cast-iron case). I cannot describe how it affected me, in fact both of us, and I never want to go through that again. Hang on in there, as the others have said, it is a war of attrition and of course the other side are hoping you will lose your nerve and cave in. Just think of "High Noon" ("do not forget me oh my darling.......la, la la) and if you do decide to accept an offer - know exactly how much it needs to be and stick to your guns.

Thank you all for your advice and support. I will keep going and pushing DP along. I just feel that he must press on when so many people, including you Gransnetters, have been helping us. Plus I feel DP has a good case and I wish I could make him see he must go in believing he will win. Will keep you posted x Thanks again.

seasider Keep with it and help keep your other half strong you are nearly there now and both have been so strong,the other side don't care how long it takes do they ? My pal was just going to sit down in Court when the offer was made to him and he had been messed about for such a long time,it won't be to long now so go steady.((hugs))

I was involved with a group of ten who were sent cheques along with the confidentiality statement to sign. Needless to say, none signed the statement and they banked their cheques. If you are asked to sign but already have the money, don't bother!

The other side certainly does worry about the chain of events. I had to sign a confidentiality agreement and their solicitor held on to my settlement cheque for two weeks to make sure I obeyed it. I was warned that if I broke the agreement I would have to pay all the money back. As far as I was concerned it just proved that they knew they were in the wrong.

Hi seasider (it's Carol). Don't worry, you are not going to come unstuck. You aren't represented and will not incur costs - the only time that happens is when the tribunal judge decides a case has been brought maliciously and there has been no willingness to negotiate, which isn't the case for you. They are highly likely to make an offer outside the court door, so they can go in and say it's all sorted. It's up to you whether you accept. If they offer a derisory sum, go in the tribunal. If they offer nearly what you want, you could say you will settle for a higher amount and see if they capitulate. You could even go into the tribunal and say an offer is on the table, but you are looking for more. The fact they are delaying is encouraging - they want to unnerve you and they want to avoid going to the tribunal at all. A tribunal can set off a chain of events, where other aggrieved employees think they will take their chances, so there's lots to weigh against them going as far as a tribunal. If you didn't have a case, they wouldn't be making offers, and would tell you loud and clear that you are bringing a malicious case, so the ACAS advisor would advise you to settle or back off. Good luck - you are nearly there!

Solicitors often bump up their fees by using delay tactics. Every phone call/letter/e-mail will be charged for (and some!). The other side will no doubt be concerned about how much the tribunal is costing them so stick to your guns. If you are not paying legal representation you have nothing to lose by waiting. It's a stressful time for you but hang on in there. Appointing a solicitor late in the day may be a good idea but bear in mind it will slow things down even more while they get up to speed with the case. If you consider further evidence against you to be irrelevant the chances are the judge will as well.

All the best.

getting nearer to the Tribunal now and the other side's solicitor's keep asking for delays. First a delay of 4 weeks in submitting "the bundle" now they want to delay the statements until just weeks before the hearing. We have agreed to the delays as we wish to appear reasonable but do you think they have a hidden agenda? The other side also keep suggesting we should get legal representation but I suspect they just want to deal with another of their own kind and broker a settlement. No more contact fro ACAS since we refused the second offer. Also the other side now want to include more evidence which, to be honest, appears irrelevant. Is this just a smokescreen. DP becoming very stressed with the process and convinced he will lose. I worry he may cave in on the day!

Keep going Seasider. You have come so far now, and a settlement can not be far off. The tactics that these people use only go to reinforce the reason they are being taken to tribunal in the first place. They can't ride roughshod over employees and just brush them aside without having to compensate them. It will be a very expensive day for them if they have to go to tribunal, and it will be worth it for them to be able to settle and move on, not least because anyone else wanting to go to tribunal will be watching to see what happens. Many organisations boast 'we have never been through a tribunal' simply because they always settle outside court at the eleventh hour.

Thanks again everyone for your help and advice. I am determined to take it to tribunal if neccessary as i know they have treated DP very badly. Each time the other side come back with threats that we will end up with nothing DP starts to doubt he will win but I know it is a game they are playing. I realise this is what they will be paying their solicitors a great deal of money to do. DP was wondering if they make a reasonable offer we should reduce our claim and meet them in the middle but to be honest I think his claim was on the low side anyway and we can justify every penny claimed to a judge. I want to just hold out for the full amount or very close to it. As I see it we have nothing to lose but they could lose money and reputation. A little part of me wants to see the people (friends!!) who stabbed DP in the back on oath at the tribunal but common sense says we should accept a resonable offer.

thanks again for your support xx

O seasider you have my full sympathy. As I think I have said, either here or elsewhere, the fact that DH went into hospital 4 days after his tribunal seems more than just coincidence.I know he had an infection, but feel the stress we were both under has to have undermined his health. We both hated it and yet I would say you MUST hang on in there and be positive as otherwise you are giving in to bullying.

PS to my last....I too was worried about explaining my reasons for leaving to future employers as I was offered a new job before the tribunal took place. I was totally honest with them and produced references that satisfied them. They were happy to give me time off for the tribunal (twice) and made me feel they regarded me as an asset. You may be pleasantly surprised how kind and supportive prospective employers can be. It takes guts and tenacity to hold out for a fair outcome which are qualities they will be looking for.

The bargaining between both sides can go right up to the wire so don't settle for a measly amount and ignore threats. I had to go to court twice as the woman responsible for cooking up a case against me didn't bother turning up the first time. She was held in contempt of court and my former employers had to fork out a considerable sum which they were advised to try and get back from her as she had already left them and set up her own company in competition. This meant I had to go back but I felt more confident the second time as it was obvious to all that the whole thing was a stitch up. I was happy with the amount I received but had to sign a confidentiality agreement.
Do tell your DH that no matter how stressful it all is the other side will be doing all they can to make you feel they have the upper hand and will want to part with as little money as possible. Stay strong!

seasider I'm sorry to hear your DH has been having such a hard time healthwise. The attempts to discourage you are typical - the one I was involved with was bombarded with threats that no-one would receive anything if they didn't capitulate, so the response was 'ok, we'll have to sort it out in the tribunal.' A better offer came in soon after that!

Thanks Merlotgran I will check that out! the other side have upped their offer by a measly £1000 today and are now trying to give us all the reasons why we cannot win!! I agree it is very stressful . DP passed out yesterday and the doctor believes it is due to blood pressure problems which I think will have been exacerbated by the stress of the whole process. I know we have to go through the negotiation process but at the moment it just seems a farce. For me the tribunal cannot come soon enough so we can get it sorted one way or another and move on. If DP wins his case for unfair dismissal I think it may help with his job search too as it is very difficult explaining to prospective employers why he lost his job.

I've not been on Gransnet for long so have only just picked up this thread. I have been through a tribunal for constructive dismissal and my employers settled out of court just ten minutes before we were due to go in. The whole process was very stressful so I don't envy you.
Just a thought....Have you checked your household insurance? Not everyone is aware that some policies give cover for legal expenses. Mine did so I didn't have to pay my solicitor a penny.
Good Luck!

Thanks again Carol. The ACAS lady did ask us what we would be prepared to settle for but we have already submitted our schedule of loss to them so they know what we are asking for! We are going to prepare the statements as requested then just wait and see what happens.

Forgot to say - the very fact of an offer being made is the strongest sign that they see you have a case.

It sounds like things are on track seasider and, as predicted, a paltry settlement sum has been offered. Have you told them what you're prepared to settle for yet? Make it double what you have in mind and don't disclose that amount to anyone, even a solicitor working for you, as they are all mates outside the court and they have in mind what they want to settle for, too - it might not fit in with your requirements.

You can expect the process to continue and all documents have to be prepared ready for submission. The other side won't want all that hassle, so usually prefer a settlement to save more work. The more senior management you want to call in to the tribunal, the more likely they will be instructing their solicitor to get you off their backs so they don't have to attend - too costly and inconvenient.

The hint that no claim should be put in for costs of looking for another job indicates 'don't go to all that trouble - a cover-all payment should be made.' The one I have referred to was given the same advice i.e. 'you have given details that indicate your claim should encompass how much you have lost, too.'

The last one I was involved in set a date for 5 months hence, after the first small offer was refused. The judge said she wanted to see a settlement before the tribunal, so she could see there was a case for grievance. Then 3 months in, two offers came in a fortnight apart, so it got to 6 weeks before the tribunal date. The settlement was dealt with very quickly after that, and cheques were sent out on the last day of that month. Good luck - you're getting there!

Hi everybody the other side made us an offer of £1500 today (ha ha!) needless to say we will not be accepting their generous offer. ACAS also told us we bould not claim for costs related to applying for new job etc ( this was only £40 for stamps, photocopying CV etc) but I have seen evidence of cases where they have been allowed? At least things appear to be moving a bit now x

thanks everybody will keep you posted x

So much good information from GNers on here good luck with your outcome seasider it looks good from where I'm standing (sitting) hold out for what you want.

Just brave it out seasider. They go through this process and in the end decide contesting it will cost too much, but if they hang on a bit and send subtle messages, they're hoping you'll give up first. You have the upper hand. Don't accept the first offer, but you can always indicate an amount you will settle for e.g. if they offer £1,000 and you want more like £20,000, tell them you'll settle for £40,000 and let them haggle it down to what you have in mind. Settle when you're happy with what they've offered and you think they won't offer more (they will say that's it and we're not offering more, but that's a ploy). Otherwise, just go to tribunal.

thanks Carol I did wonder if they may be considering an offer but did not want to be too optimistic!