What is/was your attitude to pensions?

A one off me thinks

Greatnan I think everyone in the private sector would be delighted to have an increase anywhere near that level!

Absolutely AlisonMA In the five years since I retired the average rise in Teachers and other Public Sector pensions has been 2.7%. This is based on hard fact and the calculation I have just done as a mathematician AND takes into consideration the yes, we did have a better rise this year. But as I said that was a one off and when we, as Greatnan pointed out, resort to the CPI it will fall back again. I don't know how helpful it is to quote just one unusual yearly rise as it gives credence to the untruth that public sector pension holders are benefiting when others are not.

But Nana most private pensions are not index linked at all!

Granted AlisonMA but was answering the pint by JackiePS who said that teachers' pensions went up 5% against only 2% of others, which was not the case. Plus Greatnan seemed to be adding fuel to the fire!!!!! Perish the thought, I am sure that was not her intention.

Good heavens, I merely posted the fact - why on earth are people jumping on me now! I certainly did not intend to fuel any fire and I did not say a word about the private versus public sector debate. Give me a break!

Sorry Greatnan

Thank you - believe me, I get as sick as anyone else at the constant sniping at teachers but I am also a mathematician and a retired tax inspector, so I felt obliged to quote the correct figure. Teachers and other public sector employees are not responsible for the poor situation in the private sector, which seems to generate so much envy and bitterness. We paid our contributions and thought we had entered into a contract with our employers. Are we now supposed to forfeit our pensions out of solidarity with the private sector?

My point being Greatnan that you quoted a figure for an atypical yearly pay rise and I felt obliged to challenge that, especially having had a 0% pension increase just recently. Not to worry, I'm not taking it personally and I hope you don't either.

I had an ex-teacher/retired tax inspector living across the road from me when I lived in a tiny village called Banks. That's not you is it?

No - I have been living in France since 2002,and before that in Kent, Chelsea, Brussels, Monaco, the Wirral, Surrey, North Wales, and Lancashire, but not Banks. No, I don't take things personally - I am used to most of my posts giving rise to unfavourable comments by certain people, but this time I was surprised because my post was clearly simply factual.

Are you trying to create conflict here Greatnan? As I see it I made a simple comment that the private sector would be delighted with your increase. How can that possible construed as 'constant sniping at teachers'?

"Teachers and other public sector employees are not responsible for the poor situation in the private sector, which seems to generate so much envy and bitterness. We paid our contributions and thought we had entered into a contract with our employers. Are we now supposed to forfeit our pensions out of solidarity with the private sector?"

No of course not, I don't think anyone has said they are but it is difficult to stomach when the public sector complains long and hard about how badly they are treated when they are treated much better than the private sector. Do you really think those in the private sector deserve what has happened to them? They also worked hard and paid into pension schemes which they believed would be worth having but their schemes were changed time and time again. In the private sector a pension is not a contractual right and is entirely separate so there is nothing such people can do if the company pulls back on its promises.

The media have not helped the adversarial situation between public and private sector employees by using the lazy generalisation that public sector pensions are 'gold-plated' which is far from the truth for all but the most highly paid civil servants and head teachers. Trouble is that if this is repeated often enough people begin to believe it.

I do take your point AlisonMA . My son is pouring a lot of money into his private pension as he just missed out on a final salary pension when that was closed down. You have the right to be annoyed.

I seem to have got bogged down in a non-productive argument about percentage increase and it must seem that I didn't listen to the point you are making. I'm sorry and I do understand how frustrating it must be to have paid in to such schemes.

Annobel a point well made about the media setting the private and public sector at loggerheads with each other.

No, I am certainly not trying to create any conflict. I repeat, I merely posted the true amount and was very surprised to see people reading more into it than I intended. I think I was entitled to express my surprise.
I am very sorry for people who are not going to get a decent pension, whether in the public or the private sector, but poor management in the private sector is not the fault of teachers, etc. and I fail to see why any discussion has arisen in the first place.
I do not grudge anyone anything they can get to which they are legally entitled.

May I point out that I have never uttered a word of complaint about my pensions - I am very happy with them. Nor have I suggested anywhere that people in the private sector do not deserve any pension to which they have contributed. I understand entirely why they feel cheated and betrayed - but it is not the fault of public employees.

MY OH's private pensions have had better increases than my public service one this year. He is still on RPI. It really does depend on the pension provider!

I suppose what annoys me most is the government's inability to comprehend that a large majority of the working population - the shop assistants, waitresses, carpenters, mechanics, etc, don't get a pension pot at all. And there's no way on earth they could ever save anything into a private pension. They're lucky if they can put enough by for a holiday or newer car. If this new idea of forcing employers to provide a pension goes through, there'll be so many exemptions it'll be unworkable or it'll be a pension such as the one I have from ten years as a receptionist in a housing association - £500 per year. Not to be sneezed at - it is indexed linked!

'We are all in it together' - Bah, Humbug! I think MPs have pretty good pensions.

Mmmm, I believe they do!

I think percentages have a lot to do with this widening of the wealth gap. I had a feeling at the back of my mind that Harold Wilson, many, many, moons ago, wanted to make all yearly pay rises under a set amount (£50 comes to mind) rather than a percentage which benefits the better off. I can't remember it happening though. Maybe I dreamt it.

Nfk I seem to remember that HW had a pay freeze which resulted in my DH (fiance at the time) being promoted to a much higher position so that they could pay him more! There are always ways to get round these things if the employer wants to.

I think the government is trying to help those in the public sector who are lower paid as they will not have to contribute more to their pensions but the better paid will. I think that in private sector pensions it is usually, or possibly always, based on a percentage of salary so makes no difference if you are at the top or the bottom.

I think the new scheme is to automatically enrol every new employee in the pension scheme unless they choose to opt out so no one wil lbe forced to join if they don't want to. The idea seems to be to change the emphasis.

A lot of assumptions are made about pensions based on people's own experience, but here we have around 80 posts which illustrate a range of completely different experiences and outcomes.

For most of us it is a case of swings and roundabouts, win some lose some - but then there are couples like my Dsis + BIL where it is win win (both have index linked civil service pensions) and lose lose for my Best Pal + her DH (neither has works or private pension only state pension + top up). Approaching (early) retirement, my sister was sent on a 3 day 'Preparation for Retirement' course. She then earnestly, tried to lecture us with all the does and don'ts - keep both cars, downsize before you get too old, something about AVGs until I stopped her in her tracks by pointing out that we only had a works van, it would be hard to downsize from a 2 bed cottage and I had no idea what an AVG was. Our friend who can't drive and had a 2 bed ex council house was totally bemused.

My Dsis has learned that she was very fortunate in her choice of career pensionwise and I have found that I am actually better off, moneywise, in retirement than when we were both working! All our retirement plans have been compromised by health problems anyway!

There really is no average pensioner - the powers that be have some job on their hands if they try to equaise without penalising. Meanwhile, we should not collude with 'divide and rule' tactics, which set private sector against public sector and the hardworking against the so called workshy.

What a good post, Granny 23!

Granny23 could it have been AVCs? They are Additional Voluntary Contributions which some companies allow you to pay in order to increase your eventual pension. Normally the company adds nothing to these even it they add to the normal contributions.