Last will

I'm glad I read this thread, because I had assumed previously that all the children of the family would be treated equally on the death of one partner - but apparently not if stepchildren haven't been adopted by the deceased partner!

It certainly isn't safe to leave things to chance.

Frank MrA carries out my wishes in life and I trust him to carry them out in death.
I take your point about deprivation of assets, but at the present time it seems unlikely that either he or I will need to go into care anytime soon.
That's why it's important to review your will as your circumstances change, but you cannot plan for every eventuality.

janeainsworth

You said ''If you leave some assets to the grandchildren now, the surviving grandparents hands are tied and he/she may find they really need the money for him/herself''.

Our solicitor advised my parents differently.
If you left your estate to your husband he may not carry out your wishes and may get another spouse and all the money could go to her family.

Another problem could arise if he had to go in to care shortly after your death.
If he does a deed of variation at that point the council may argue deprivation of assets had happened as your husband would have had the opportunity to get hold of your estate.

In theory the council could challenge the will anyway and say you had not made adequate provision for your husbands care if you leave all your estate to your children but I think this is very unlikely.

Frank

Think I got the last sentence wrong
Just to be clear, I wouldn't want anyone to feel hard done by.

Granny23 We have 3 children, 2DGCs from DS, one DGC from DD1 and DD2 has no children.
Our solicitor's advice was to leave all our assets to each other.
After the first death you can apply for a deed of variation, so that you can do what seems best at the time.
If you leave some assets to the grandchildren now, the surviving grandparents hands are tied and he/she may find they really need the money for him/herself.
Personally I would want all the DGCs to have equal amounts, but it is very difficult to know what is fair, especially when we already spend quite large sums visiting the distant DGCs in the USA.The last thing (literally) I would want is to leave any DC feeling hard done by.

DH and I made wills 20 years ago, just made an appointment with our solicitor and it was all done and dusted, they know what they are doing and it prevents you from making a slip up.
DH was driving 40,000 miles a year and I had a fear of him dying intestate and all of his vast family having a claim on the estate.

Like Elegran we have identical wills -everything to each other, then half each to our two DD's. We have already done Frank's trick of each owning half the house and on the death of one DD's will each own a quarter share and the surviving spouse the other half.

Our solicitor has retired and the new one keeps sending letters urging us to update our wills, to take account of changes e.g. Grandchildren. We are in a quandry as to whether we want to do this having 3 DGC - one DD has 1, other DD has 2 and given the DD's ages this is unlikely to change. If both DD's had 2 children, we would just leave the wills at equal shares but are now wondering if we should leave an equal specific sum to each DGC with the residue split 50/50 between the DDs. After all our DGC are our 'offspring' too and we would like them to also have fair shares.

Has anyone any suggestions as how best to resolve this dilemma?

Gilly Your will is your will. It is what you want to happen to your property, or your half of shared property or money. It has nothing to do with your husband and he cannot alter it, though he could contest it, as Frank said.

It would then go through the courts and he would have to state why he was contesting it - that there was something illegal or dodgy about it, or you were not in your right mind, or someone was applying undue pressure on you, or he did not believe it was your signature - though it would have been witnessed, so someone will have signed that they saw it signed by you.

If you leave part of property which also partly belongs to anyone else,that properly stated, but a solicitor would keep you straight on that, and other legalities.

The sooner you speak to a professional, the sooner the process begins. It does take a little time to draft, alter, and sign.

We made identical wills - everything to each other, and if one of us had already predeceased the other, then everything to be divided equally to our three children, or the survivors if any of them had died. We have no fears about them quarrelling over their shares, because none of them are like that, but the solicitor will advise you on how to deal with any inequalities (or perceived inequalities!)

gillybob

In theory your husband could contest the will but he can not change it.
The main grounds could be he was dependent upon you and the will did not leave sufficient provision for him.
This would normally have to be done within 6 months of the grant of probate.
If you have left him with a house to live in which your children half own I think it is unlikely a court would accept you have made insufficient provision for him especially if he has been left some money as well.
I don't know what your husband would want to leave to his children.
When my father got a lady friend she thought Dad could have contested Mum's will which gave me half ownership of the house but I had been a legal half owner / occupier for about 4 years so it is unlikely any contesting would have been successful

Frank

Thanks again Absent but am I right in thinking that once one of us dies then the other can change it all anyway ? I am not suggesting he would I just wonder how that would leave my children.

I think I had better start saving as I can see this being an expensive legal bill, there are so many if's and and's. Even more

gillybob Your picture of where your estate will go applies if you die intestate – that's why making a will is so important. You can decide who gets what.

We should have sorted our will out before now, I know notso I said I would sort it last year...where has that year gone.

I think I will take you all up on your advice re sitting down and trying to sort who gets what etc, but as with gilly oh its going to be complicated, where to start.

I was going to use the charity will day where you visit a solicitor and the fee is donated to a charity, in our case its the local hospice.

Thank you Absent, Elegran and HunterF.

My main concern is that my two children's father(s) are both deceased and my husband has been a "father" to them since they were small (although not legally through adoption). My husband has two older children from a previous marriage whom he never sees (it's a long story).

How on earth do we even begin to make provision for "our" particular circumstances? Am I right in assuming that if I die before my husband then effectively my children and grandchildren get nothing and then when my husband dies everything will go to his two children that he has barely any contact with (not through his choice I might add)?

I think I am answering my own questions and really need legal advice.

gillybob

It is difficult to advise as an outsider.
Circumstances do change so the chances are most wills will have to be updated at some point.
In our family the money basically goes to the offspring.
Most of the houses in our wider family are on Tenants in common ownership so each spouse wills their own halves to the offspring or in some cases to the grandchildren.
This means if the surviving spouse has to go in to care at worst the council can only take half the house and if the surviving spouse re marries they new spouse can not get the half of the house belonging to the deceased spouse.
With regard to your business it depends if any of the offspring will be interested in running it or it may have to be sold.
Another thing to consider is do you go on some holidays with your offspring.
In our case we all fly on the same aeroplane every other year.
We have reserve beneficiaries in case we all get killed at the same time and we are standing as reserve beneficiaries for other parts of the family.
In summary I think it is best to decide who you want to benefit from your estate and then visit your solicitor and he will discuss the out of the ordinary possibilities with you.

Frank

There is a central registry for storing wills. When I wrote my last one it was then sent to Somerset House for safekeeping (there is a copy in the filing cabinet in my office). However, I think the address may be different now.

Make an appointment with a solicitor, and before you see them, make a list of all your assets you can. Have a think about what you want to happen to things - the house, the main money, the valuable items around the house, the business, sentimental items, photographs and certificates and so on.

The solicitor will talk to you about things, and bring up things that might not have occurred to you, and draw up a draft will to send to you. When you read it through you will probably notice things that you would change, or add, or people you want to leave things to who you missed out the first time.

You will need one or more executor. The solicitor will act as executor but will, as ever, charge for that service, the amount depending on how long it took them to carry out your wishes. If it is a member of the family or a friend, check that they will be willing. Don't pick someone who is a lot older and likely to die before you do.

The solitor will change things ad infinitum until you are ready to sign, but, of course, the final bill will reflect how much time they spent on it, so the more you have thought about it first the better the price.

When you have signed it, put it away somewhere and tell the family where it is and who is to be executor. Don't hide it up the chimney for safety to keep its whereabouts a secret!

gillybob I would suggest that you and Mr gillybob make some sort of rough outline of to whom you want to leave money/property/business/other assets, etc. and in what kind of proportions for each. Also consider any specific bequests such as a favourite piece of jewellery to a particular woman friend/cousin/granddaughter, etc or a donation to a charity. It's worth agreeing with each other over this stuff as one of you is likely to outlive the other. Once you have a broad plan, then it is worth consulting a solicitor who can make sure that your wishes are crystal clear and can be easily carried out.

I really do recommend getting proper legal advice as there can be all manner of things that the layman doesn't think about or even know. Wills can be challenged and while the challenger doesn't necessarily win, the estate can just be eaten up with legal costs.

Can anyone advise me what steps I would need to take before making a will? I dread the thought of doing it as we have quite a few complications. We also have a small business which makes it even more important I guess, but I honestly don't know where to start. Do Mr Gillybob and I sit down and physically work it all out first or do we see a solicitor and let them advise us?

We don't have a great deal (money, antiques etc) but we do have the house and business and I can't even begin to know where to start.

Hunt I agree – auctions are great fun. I have both bought and sold at auctions and done very nicely at both. Mr absent and I have popped up on Cash in the Attic a number of times where we have been shown at Chiswick bidding for items that we would never have wanted in a month of Sundays and which were probably at a sale we didn't attend. I particularly dislike Shelley china but there I was, apparently bidding furiously for a perfectly horrid teaset that I wouldn't give house room.

Auction items don't have to be of enormous value. It's like looking after the pennies. The seemingly worthless soon add up. One of our 'lots' was three old bakelite telephones-£70, another lot was a collection of modest stamp albums-£48 and so on. It is such fun watching it all on the computer. Just like havng your own programme of ,say, Cash in the Attic. also it's unpredictable, an old chess set went for-wait for it- £420! The DCs would probably have put it in a skip.

FlicketyB You are so right. Silver, with the possible exception of Christopher Dresser, has been a poor seller for some years – maybe it's due for a revival in the next decade. Clarice Cliff china – even the rarer pieces – has been declining in popularity and so value, as has much Art Deco. Try selling anything made of mahogany. Things go in and out of fashion. Even gold – that great hedge against recession – has plummeted in the last few days. Things no one would look at 20 or 30 years ago have become collectable again; while items that fetched high prices just a few years ago are of no interest now. I blame those antiques television programmes to some extent. And, of course, given that we rarely know when we are going to pop out bucket, we are unlikely to know whether granny's perfectly hideous diamond and ruby parure or grandpa's duelling pistols are collectable or things everyone in the auction room will ignore when the time comes.

The value of antiques is very fluid and over recent years has been plummeting. 19th century furniture we have that 10 years ago was valued in the high hundreds of pounds would now be lucky to clear £100.

Even Georgian silver is selling for its scrap value unless it is exceptional. Very few people now want brown furniture or beautiful tableware, silver or china, because they do not fit with modern lifestyles.

We know the value of our stuff and so are correct in trying to convince our boys. You are mistaken absent if you think I don't. Clarice Cliff may look like old bits of china but it is valuable. My jewellery may look like old junk but is antique and insured for rather a lot of money. I could go on. I do go to our local auction house so am quite aware of the value of what we have.

Absent, very true. My sister casts her eyes over our home now and sighs. Her husband is a great gatherer of 'Stuff' and has a least three lots from relatives who have died. They do have a big house, and children at University but its all just 'Stuff' and of no huge value. Shes sick to death of finding room for yet another dark wooden bookcase/desk or bureau (that just might come in handy). In fact its the little things like letters and diaries, that dont take up much room that we have treasured, but even those will go after us as our children will have no knowledge/memory of those to whom ithey refer.

Hello Movedalot, yes it tricky, we had a major clearout a few years ago when we moved/downsized having sorted out a parental home. To be honest we got rid of anything genuinely antique and also handed over decent stuff to children (if they wanted it). Its been jolly refreshing and we are now trying to not aquire anymore 'stuff' as I find it all a bit of a chore. Our only main extravagence nowadays is holidays (because you don't know when you won't be up to them, so we are getting about as much as possible.