Last will

Think I got the last sentence wrong
Just to be clear, I wouldn't want anyone to feel hard done by.

janeainsworth

You said ''If you leave some assets to the grandchildren now, the surviving grandparents hands are tied and he/she may find they really need the money for him/herself''.

Our solicitor advised my parents differently.
If you left your estate to your husband he may not carry out your wishes and may get another spouse and all the money could go to her family.

Another problem could arise if he had to go in to care shortly after your death.
If he does a deed of variation at that point the council may argue deprivation of assets had happened as your husband would have had the opportunity to get hold of your estate.

In theory the council could challenge the will anyway and say you had not made adequate provision for your husbands care if you leave all your estate to your children but I think this is very unlikely.

Frank

Frank MrA carries out my wishes in life and I trust him to carry them out in death.
I take your point about deprivation of assets, but at the present time it seems unlikely that either he or I will need to go into care anytime soon.
That's why it's important to review your will as your circumstances change, but you cannot plan for every eventuality.

I'm glad I read this thread, because I had assumed previously that all the children of the family would be treated equally on the death of one partner - but apparently not if stepchildren haven't been adopted by the deceased partner!

It certainly isn't safe to leave things to chance.

janeainsworth

Hopefully you will not die soon or have to go in to care.
A situation arose in our wider family where the wife died and the father dated another woman before probate had even started.
She suggested he tore the will up.
Fortunately the father saw this as fraud and the new lady was sent on her way. In any case the daughter had both parents wills in safe custody at her bank.
If he had control of the assets and his relationship with his daughter had been less than good at the time he may have been tempted to do what the lady wanted.

Frank

Ana

As well as step children you mention about all children of a marriage being treated equally you could have a situation where a widower may have an estate worth £600,000 and the widow he marries may only have an estate worth £200,000.
If the widower had 2 children they should get £300,000 each.
If the widow had say 6 children they should get £33,333.33 each.
If the children were treated evenly in this marriage it would be unfair on the children of the richer spouse as they would only get £100,000 instead of £300,000.

Frank

HUNTERF There is no "should" about what adult children should inherit from their parent(s). If I choose to leave everything I own to the Cats' Protection League, the Hare Krishna organisation or the Flat Earth Society, that is my choice and absentdaughter has to live with it (which she would because she doesn't believe she has automatic rights over my money). There is an issue if a will is challenged or someone dies intestate, but I can choose what I want to happen to my estate after I pop my clogs so long as I choose when I am deemed to be of sound mind. There is no legal obligation to leave any money to my adult daughter or my grandchildren, although, of course, I am very likely to do so.

I agree with you absent - the situation I was envisaging was where the parent died intestate.

absent

My mother first mentioned she wanted me to be the beneficiary of her part of the marital estate and if Dad chose to get married again she did not want any of estate to go to the future wife. That is why my mothers will left me her half and Dad did a similar will.
Also the house ownership was divided into halves for inheritance tax reasons and the fact that she did not want any of her money to be used for any care fees for Dad.
Dad agreed with what Mum was doing and did a similar will.
If Mum had made her will out without Dad agreeing with what she had done Dad may have been able to stop the transfer of Mums share of the house because there was a clause on the land certificate saying no transfer or charge over the house was allowed without the consent of all owners.
When Mum died Dad had to sign a form agreeing to have me as the other half owner.
I am not sure what would have happened if he refused to sign the form. It may have gone to court or may be Dad could have taken 100% ownership of the property and left it to another family regardless of Mum's wishes.
The main thing was Dad did sign the form and I inherited the other half when Dad died.

Frank

HUNtERF I understand your situation as you have explained it a number of times. I was simply saying that adult children do not have an automatic right to inherit anything from their parents.

I actually think Frank makes a lot of sense. Of course we can leave our assets and money to whoever we want but most of us are likely to prefer our children or grandchildren benefit.

My father didn"t make a will as he believed his second wife would leave his five children half of their estate and her son the other half. He told my brother and sister that's what would be happening, but as he said it my step mother got up and quietly walked out the room. It does seem unfair, my father wouldn't have wanted his very wealthy stepson to inherit all of the money and assets he put into his second marriage. Not making a will and completely trusting his wife deems that is exactly what will happen when my stepmother dies.

Exactly, Faye - wills are vital even when there is implicit trust between partners and even more so when children from other marriages are involved.

DH & I have a reciprocal will i.e. we leave all assets to each other but we have a clause, in each will, that says the house is only available for the duration of lifetime and on the second death it goes to our DDs. In effect it means neither of us can will away our other half's part of the house!

We did our will via a set price Will Writing company ..any changes are free after the initial cost which were not cheap but similar to a solicitor. They hold a copy of the will and we made our SiL and my younger brother executors.

nanaej

It appears that your will has the same practical effect as my parents 2 wills.
The only thing I am a little unsure of is how Social Services will view it if one of you has to go in to care.
As I have said before I think it would have been very unlikely Social Services could have got hold of my half of my half of the house if Dad had gone in to care as I was a definite half owner but it does not appear your daughters are definite owners till you both pass away.

Frank

I don't wish to teach my Grandmother how to suck eggs; but if there are any of you out there who have property abroad please make sure that you have a will drawn up in that country relating only to that property.

nanaej It all depends when you drew up the will and your health then.

I do feel that if doing what you suggest would work, every solicitor in the country would be advising their clients to do it, and they are not.

I do know of a case where a man had to enter care. At the time of going in to care he had no mental health problems and the solicitor came to the home for the documentation to be signed to split the house in to tenants in common ownership and the wife willed her half to the children.
Sadly the wife passed away about a year later and the house was sold and the children took half the proceeds.
The man's share of the house proceeds and other money ran out after 5 years and Social Services wanted to get the other half.
They threatened legal action but the matter never went to court.
In reality Social services knew they did not have a case as half the house belonged to the wife and she was within her rights to leave it to the children.
I was told the man survived for nearly 9 years in care.

Frank

We have had it about 15 years.

I realise the laws on paying for care etc have changed so maybe it would be challenged.

However I have willed my half of our home to my daughters but they have to allow their father to live in it for the duration of his life and cannot force him to sell it..his will says the same for me...

nanaej

Your daughters will own half of the house under your circumstances.
Social Services will try to challenge it but they will not take the matter to court.
I am afraid one of the relatives which I was helping said 4 words firmly '' I am not paying '' and Social Services did not have a leg to stand on.

Frank

nanaej

Re my previous thread.
I forgot about your thread on the 25 April 13 22.37.01.

I would check your will arrangements are valid against Social Services if the survivor has to go in to care.

I am not sure by the wording if your children will get any ownership of the property till after the second survivors death so Social Services may be able to take all of the property if care is needed.

It may be best if your children are given ownership of half the property on first death so there can be no dispute.

Frank

It just makes good sense to make a will no one wants their estate to land in the lap of the government do they.

There is a cost of course but it means yours estate goes to where you want it to go.

jeanie99

You are correct.
As I have said before it makes good sense for a husband and wife to split the house in to tenants in common ownership and willing half of the house to the children on first death so the council can not take all the house towards care home fees if one has to go in to care.
Another thing happened a few days ago.
Somebody's son had passed away very early in life and there were no children.
His parents thought the daughter in law would get the estate atomically.
That is not correct and they have now made a will.

Frank

can someone help.
In the event of somebody dying without leaving a will and has no surviving brothers,sisters and parents or wife or children.
Who of the surviving relatives would be first in line to claim any assets left by the deceased.
The known surviving relatives, cousin/daughter of either a brother or sister of the deceased father or sister of the deceased mother. two nieces and one nephew whose mother was the sister of the deceased's late wife.

tanjawi, The line starts with the parents of the deceased and descends equally on the maternal and paternal sides so cousins are entitled to an equal share. If a cousin has already died, however, his or her share goes to his or her estate.

Practical example:

The daughter of sister of DH's grandfather died intestate. Her parents were dead, her sister, who had no children had died and she also had no children.

The search for relatives started with her parent's siblings (4 of them). They had all died, BUT they had all married and had children. So the money was divided in equal shares between the deceased brothers and sisters (a quarter each), then because they were deceased, their share was divided equally between their children.

In the case of DH's grandfather, most of his children had also died so his quarter was divided by the number of his surviving children plus deceased children who themselves had children, 8 in all. So DH's mother received an eighth of the quarter he inherited. As she had died and DH was an only child he got all her share, but if he had had, say, 1 sibling, they both would have received half of her share.

As the estate was small and the solicitors costs for hunting all beneficiaries was quite high we finally received a cheque for £169.52.