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Legal, pensions and money

Changes to Legal Aid Systrem

(5 Posts)
cannybairn Wed 01-May-13 22:06:01

As usual the real problem is being overlooked --Legal Aid is just a victim of the British Justice System, which has been corrupt since Charles Dickens forcefully tried to alert society to the "Closed Shop" that it became, and the clever ways that lawyers could become very rich while judges lived in better circumstance than the Queen. DOCTOR, FIRST HEAL THYSELF. or perhaps now the people can heal the Justice System

whenim64 Wed 01-May-13 21:10:06

Yes, I agree with you there, jane. I responded with reference to criminals because the article refers to the Criminal Justice System/CJS. I hope they can find a working solution to the legal aid problem. Better auditing and barring of the offending solicitors is needed.

janeainsworth Wed 01-May-13 20:52:29

Thank you When for your comments - I wasn't posting to get support for the petition, really just to see what people thought.
I must confess that I have never really associated Legal Aid with hardened serial criminals and bent solicitors, and wonder how much of the Legal Aid budget ends up in their pockets. I've always associated it more with helping people with things like divorce, domestic abuse, young people who may have commtted minor offences etc. but obviously you have a working knowledge of the system.
I think the wider issue is putting public services out to competitive tendering (if you accept that legal aid is a public service) and whether we want large companies running them and profiting from them, and whether this affects the professional relationship which providers of these services have with their clients.
It is the same process that is happening in the NHS, with doctors and dentists having to compete to provide services. Competitive tendering favours large organisations and while they may appear cheaper, quality of service may be at risk.

whenim64 Wed 01-May-13 18:35:08

I feel ambivalent about this, having spent a career watching the legal aid system being abused by both criminals and lawyers, and experiencing in my personal life the frustrations of seeing different solicitors who obviously knew nothing about the case they were being paid to deal with, and continually failing to take action that they had agreed to take.

We all got to know who were the responsible firms and who were the ones who milked the system. There are some big companies that have grown to that size because they have specialised in legal aid criminal cases that they can disproportionately profit from, and it would be good to see their profiteering stopped.

The idea of not being able to pick your own solicitor to represent you in a criminal case is not necessarily the big issue. Serial offenders have their favourite solicitors, who string out the case for as long as they can, despite changes to the system to try to counter this. Also, many offenders are already happy to see a duty solicitor, having gone through other firms previously and fallen out with solicitors for various reaons. That sort of loyalty and relationship is not one that is healthy.

I understand and agree there should be a debate and consultations, and a fair legal system that all can access according to their ability to pay, but I'm not sure yet whether to support this. If it really does help youths and the mentally ill or otherwise vulnerable, I am in favour, but a change to the system has been needed for a long time. If it wasn't abused by incorrigible offenders and colluding solicitors, who give the rest a bad name, there would be enough fundng for the vulnerable clients.

janeainsworth Wed 01-May-13 17:42:15

This was posted on a dental forum by an employment lawyer who is angry about the forthcoming changes to the Legal aid system, which she thinks will reduce choice for anyone needing legal aid. Large legal companies will benefit and smaller companies will not be able to carry out legal aid work.
may interest some on Gransnet.

"Those of you who know me will know that I wasn't always a high flying employment lawyer , I started off my legal life as a lowly criminal legal aid lawyer and for that reason I am currently jumping up and down in outrage at the plan by Chris Grayling, the Minister of Justice, to destroy our criminal justice system - I am not exaggerating.

You may have heard something about this in the media, but you may have not.

I won't rant on too much here but in short, despite already swingeing cuts the MOJ proposes to introduce a scheme of 'Price Competitive Tendering' PCT, which will see the lowest bidders win criminal legal aid contracts, with bids set at a minimum of 17.5% less than current rates - no concerns over quality, just price; the intention is to reduce what is currently about 1600 law firms doing criminal legal aid work down to max 400, and in reality more like 40, with large companies like G4S and even Tesco or Co-Op (both of whom now have legal depts) bidding shudders. (A few years ago there were about 4000 firms, so you can see the sort of cuts that have already been made)

But this isn't just about money - another extremely alarming proposal is to stop free choice of legal representation, so those receiving legal aid will simply be allocated a solicitor. This will NOT save any money (the 'duty' solicitor is paid the same rate as 'own' solicitor); but will have a serious impact on particularly vulnerable clients, such as young people and those with mental health problems, who build a relationship of trust with their solicitor. That will be lost and more miscarriages of justice will follow. The knock on effect will also be devastating for victims and witnesses, as experienced lawyers are forced to leave the profession and trials are run by the lowest bidders, paid the same paltry fixed rate whether there is a trial or not.

At present, despite there currently being a (shortened) consultation, there is not even going to be parliamentary debate on this, it is simply going to be introduced in the Autumn, so those of us in the legal profession are doing everything we can to bring this to the attention of the public and our MP's.

What I am asking you to do is to sign the petition and share it with your colleagues, family and friends: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48628

If you are on Twitter you can follow much of this with #saveUKjustice and @NotoPCT - there are also links to many, many blogs written by lawyers working within the CJS explaining why these proposals are going to be so devastating."