Becoming a carer for the second time.

Ask Age UK for advice. [http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/]]. [If it's your main residence, I don't think you can be required to sell it for care costs for someone else. The questions to ask, are your MiL's income enough to cover the possible care costs and how much, if any, does she have in savings. So many of us seem to be caught in sequential care. I hope whatever your decision, it works out well for you.

Sorry! www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/

Annabelle

I don't remember you so I am presuming you are new to gransnet.
I am sorry about your situation. My mother in law outlasted my wife and I had to act as a carer to her and subsequently to my father.
I have sat in on several meetings where the offspring owned half the house and the social workers reaction has been that the house would have to be sold and the proceeds divided.
As soon as I put a copy of Age Concern Factsheet 38 in front of them and point to jointly owned property they have backed down.
Social workers are not allowed to ask if the carer or joint owner has owned a property in the past but there is always a chance you could see the same social worker as the one who dealt with your father so they may bring up the subject of the house you owned with your father and subsequently inherited.
Again you will just have to be assertive and just tell them the house is no longer there for you to return to.
Under present regulations if there is a joint owner / occupier the council can not force a sale even if the joint owner has £10,000,000.00 in the bank.
You can not be thrown out as well as you are over 60.
I would get the view of age concern or a solicitor but I have seen no special regulations applying to jointly owned property if the person has inherited a house from somebody who has been in care.

Frank

Annabelle

I have noticed only Lilygran and myself have responded to your question.
It may be worth repeating your question under ''carers'' as some people who have been carers may not look under legal.
I am sure this must have happened to somebody on Gransnet. As Lillygran has said ''So many of us seem to be caught in sequential care''.

Frank

Annabelle

I know you have cared for your father and you are now going to care for your mother in law but it looks like you sold your marital home and it looks as if you are about to sell your parents home which is going to leave you a rich lady.
If your mother in law needs care you could stay in her house which it looks like you will inherit and you could use the sale proceeds from the sale of the 2 houses to pay the fees. As a taxpayer I object to my taxes being used for somebody in your position.

Gerry

Bentley, why should Annabelle be expected to pay the care fees for someone else just because she has inherited money from her husband and parents? you might as well tell me to pay the care fees for DS's mother in law just because we are better off and she is known to us as a result of our children marrying.

I fully share your belief that we should not look to the state to support us while we have funds our own and I think it morally wrong to deliberately try to put your assets out of reach of care fees to benefit your children, however much we may want to. In a case like this I see no reason, in principal, even if not possible in practice, for Social Services to put a charge on the lady in cares share of her marital home, but to ask her daughter in law to pay just because she happens to have inherited money from people with no ties to her mother in law is unjust.

Bently - you are making some presumptious assumptions about Anabelle. How do you know she had a marital home to sell? or that the sale of any house/s will 'make her a RICH woman'.

My mother left everything to my father and when he died 3 years later my sister and I inherited equal shares of his entire estate, including their bought ex-council one bed flat, which was on an interest only mortgage. After clearing the mortgage, paying funeral expenses and lawyers fees, we received approx £8,000 each. Hardly made us rich women, especially as we gave a chunk to each of the four DGC who were then students.

Flickety

If you look at Age Concern Factsheet 38 paragraph 3 no charge can be put on the property as Annabelle is over 60 and if you look at paragraph 5 because Annabelle will be a joint owner occupier the mother in law's share will have a nil valuation because nobody would be interested in buying a house with somebody in it so again there is nothing to charge / sell.
The fact that Annabelle has inherited property from her father should not come in to the situation and it is of no relevance Annabelle may have had a marital home.
Social workers are not supposed to ask what resources a carer has.
I do know of a case where a daughter owned a house worth about £700,000 and her father and mother lived in a council house.
When her mother died the father went to live with the daughter.
A few years later the father had to go in to care and the Social Worker tried to tell the daughter to downsize to pay for her father's care.
The daughter refused. The father has now died and the daughter is still in the house.
In this case the Social Worker just looked at the address and it is well known the properties are expensive in that road.

Frank

I think that in France there is an obligation on children to pay part if not all the nursing home/care fees of their parents. Depending on income etc it may only be the part that the health system does not pick up - 30% - but just as you cannot disinherit a child, a child cannot abandon a parent with no resources, which can be punishable with a prison sentence. Food for thought maybe.

Bez

You are correct.
I would hope we do not get that system in the UK.
I think not being able to disinherit your children is good.
Unfortunately there are people who see £ notes of a widow is on his / her own and marry them to get the money.
Also the rule about all of a former matrimonial home going to the spouse can be unfair.
In my parents case they split the house ownership in to tenants in common and my mother and father left their own halves to me.
This meant that the worst could have happened if my father had gone in to care the council could have only got half the house.
If no such will had been made the council could have got all of the house.
As it happens my father never went in to care.

Frank

I think that a parent should always have a right to disinherit a child. There has been a court case today where a woman has been sentenced to a minimum of 30 years in prison for wantonly killing the family of parents and children living in the flat above. If she were my daughter I would disinherit her. But I do think children should have greater rights than they do at present to go to court for a change to be made when the decision to disinherit can be considered to be capricious.

If that went with a responsibility to help with a parents care costs that is reasonable, again providing there is a let out clause. I can see no reason why the child of an abusive parent should be expected to contribute to their care.

I did have a marital home which was sold and if this arrangement goes ahead my parental home will be sold. In the present market I would get another home ok. My mother in law is 80 and she may not need care for years. What concerns me is house
prices may increase vasty and if half the house is taken I may not be able to afford to buy it.
Annabelle

FlicketyB

Disinheritance might be ok if the children have committed some serious crime.
My mother passed away with cancer and on the last day of her life she was wanting to divorce Dad. We were supposed to be spending excessive amounts of money and the hospital staff were supposed to be neglecting her.
The nurse did say it was the illness talking and not Mum.
Obviously she should not be allowed to alter her will in that condition and she was unable to do so.
The problem with children's liability for care costs is they are most likely to be called to pay when there are no assets to inherit.
I know of a case where the son retired in 2005 and his mother has been in care since 2006 and she was certainly alive about a month ago.
She was only supposed to live for less than a year.
Because the mother is violent she has to be kept in a home with security which charges nearly £1,000 per week and she is NHS funded.
If the son had been held liable for that his retirement would be ruined.

Frank

annabelle51

I can see what you are saying.
Your mother in law may not need care for say 18 years and house prices could rise a lot in that time and your money might not keep up with the interest rates being so low.
All I can say is under the present regulations the council could not sell the home.
Don't forget you will then be 80 and I think there will be protests if an 80 year old woman was thrown out of her home.

Frank