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Law on teacher's resignation?

(53 Posts)
Deedaa Wed 24-Jul-13 15:11:06

Does anyone have any knowledge of the law applied to teacher's resignation? My son in law wanted to work flexitime to help with childcare. This was turned down in spite of being allowed for several women teachers. He has now been offered a job at another school which will give him flexitime and also £3,000 more a year. Apparently if he resigns now his current school want him to work till Christmas. Does anyone know if they can enforce this or what action they can take if he did just leave?

gracesmum Wed 24-Jul-13 23:09:01

Dare I suggest that there is something wrong if he is there till 10 o clock at night? What is wrong may be poor management, unreasonable workload or perhaps perfectionism, but with most schools finishing at 3 or 4 pm, even the most dedicated teacher should be able to expect to leave by 7 at the latest. No wonder he has been ill.

bluebell Wed 24-Jul-13 23:07:54

You should ask your sil who even made it possible for such a thing as flexible working to be even possible - or if he thinks its a communist plot?

gracesmum Wed 24-Jul-13 23:06:16

I always understood one had to belong to a union for protection, insurance etc. That was the only reason I signed up although I was glad of support after an incident when an unsubstantiated allegstion was made about me !

vampirequeen Wed 24-Jul-13 22:58:10

I think it's petty because the new school is offering him the hours that his current school can't even more so now that Deedaa has told us he's been ill.

I don't think that as a disgruntled teacher he would let the children down or do anything to throw a spanner in the works but his mind will be on his new job not his current job so although he'll be working hard he'll also be biding his time.

If he's not in a union he's making a big mistake. He needs the protection and support a union offers should he be accused of anything

Deedaa Wed 24-Jul-13 20:44:51

I think he may decide to try negotiation. My feeling was that the new school must know that he can't just walk away from his current position. He has never mentioned a union and I suspect that being American he would think it was a communist cell. (they are really weird politically!) He was hoping to cut back a bit as he has been quite seriously ill this year, instead of which he's been working there till 10 o'clock at night at times. So you can see his point in wanting to find something else.

Thanks everyone for your comments - I shall pass them on and it may help him decide how to proceed smile

nanaej Wed 24-Jul-13 20:09:13

This is why Gove's dream of 1000s of satellite schools, answerable only to themselves and the DfE will have negative impact on student.

nanaej Wed 24-Jul-13 20:07:23

vampirequeen it is not petty for a head to want enough teachers to cover allclasses/ timetable, especially if he is a good teacher! I also hope the teacher in question is professional enough not to behave in a 'disgruntled' way because he can't get what he wants when he wants!

I understand it is frustrating! Where I am governor a teacher got a new (promotion) job just before the end of term and will leave at Christmas. I am confident that her excitement about her new 'perfect' job will not diminish what she does in her current job.

JessM Wed 24-Jul-13 19:57:53

Sometimes schools behave in a "gentlemanly" way (as they used to say) towards other schools. But if they are desperate to recruit and they don't have an alliance with the school they are poaching from, some of them take no prisoners. They are presumably desperate themselves having no teacher for a class or classes in September.

annodomini Wed 24-Jul-13 19:13:18

It seems that some academies are riding roughshod over the rules and actually 'headhunting' teachers from other schools without advertising the posts.

Notso Wed 24-Jul-13 18:42:46

Surely the school that has offered the new post knows the notice rules and will not be expecting him to start until the New Year?

vampirequeen Wed 24-Jul-13 18:15:39

Unfortunately they can keep him until Christmas but they might be open to negotiating to half term esp if the union get involved and play the gender card. It just depends if the other school will keep the job open.

I think the head and governors are being petty tbh and what SMT seriously wants a disgruntled teacher in the classroom. That wouldn't be good for anyone.

gracesmum Wed 24-Jul-13 18:10:05

I also know of several women teachers with young children whose request for part time was rejected on (ostensibly) time tabling grounds. They took the plunge and resigned - and in most cases found somethng else. How would he feel about leaving his department and colleagues in the lurch? I have had the problem of finding replacements at short notice, the best would usually be a supply teacher (or more than one) , while the worst was someone not up to the job so have spent hours debating whether a temporary appointment of a teacher whom nobody else would appoint was better than a series of supply teachers. Either way the kids suffer as do one's colleagues.

granjura Wed 24-Jul-13 18:05:28

It could be the other job shares were set up some time ago, when budget issues were not a problem. Or that their jobs are different, and that his is not suitable for jobsharer, for whatever reason. It could be that it is discrimination, without knowing that particular situation, it is difficult to comment. As a parent and grand-parent, i am glad those rules are in place, as I would have hated, and would now hate, for children or grand-children to get to beginning of term with no teacher to teach them. If the school has to employ supply staff, they a/ might not find anybody and b/ it would cost the school a fortune.

Movedalot Wed 24-Jul-13 17:47:38

I agree that negotiation is the route. From the information given it does look like a case of discrimination and I think that involving the unions straight away is the best way to go.

Surely the new school will know the position? If he has a job offer I doubt they would retract it as they know what notice must be given. They wouldn't be able to get anyone else at such short notice.

JessM Wed 24-Jul-13 17:12:36

granjura LEA's are a disappearing breed in England I'm afraid, with the arrival of academies. Half of all english secondaries and quite a few primaries - and massive cuts in the town halls.
glamma in my experience the business world tends to give minimal references these days to avoid any liability to anyone e.g. HR will confirm that they worked for the company between x and y dates in such and such a role, and that is about it.
In education they tend to see themselves as part of the same team and give much more informative references. These contain thinly veiled messaged ranging from "I commend him for your consideration" (in other words, please, please take him off my hands, I beg you) to " you would be very fortunate to recruit this person, no hesitation in recommending etc etc"
All references fall with in data protection so employees have a right to see a copy, but may be asked to pay photocopying costs.

nanaej Wed 24-Jul-13 17:01:50

There are clear resignation dates which all teachers really should know!

Schools have to have some consideration for the teachers request to change their working hours but quite rightly the priority has to be what is best for the students/pupils. It is always more expensive to employ jobshares as you need to pay for crossover time and also the 'on-costs' work out more..so budget is an issue too. The school needs time to appoint a suitable replacement. Parents do not like chopping and changing of teachers. It is not just about the teachers needs. Your SiL is paid to do a job, the job is not there to meet his needs.

I agree there should be no discrimination re gender & job shares but it may be that the school has worked out it can afford x number of job shares and no more. Details of this should be in the school's pay policy, available to all staff.

He can always appeal to the governors.

bluebell Wed 24-Jul-13 17:00:18

That's why negotiation should be tried and why his union rep should be involved - silly boy if he's not joined!!

granjura Wed 24-Jul-13 16:53:09

The black mark for breaking the contract will not just be with the particular school, but the whole LEA- and will show up in references, I'm afraid. Leaving a school too late to recruit means many children would suffer unfairly. So he has to ask the other school if they can hold on for him for Christmas, I'm afraid. Ot take the risk to give notice for Christmas and actively look for a job, if they can manage without his salary short-term.

glammanana Wed 24-Jul-13 16:29:59

JessM Am I wrong in thinking it is now against the law to refuse a favourable reference when the person involved has performed well during their employment or am I mistaken.?

JessM Wed 24-Jul-13 16:18:14

He's got a right to "request" flexible working (not flexitime) along with all other employees. Employers must consider whether this is possible or not, given their business needs. It might for instance be really difficult to arrange a secondary school timetable to suit the request. I agree though, if such a request has been granted several times to female colleagues he might have a case for discrimination.
In theory the contract is enforceable but I have never heard of a case where this has been done. Does the school want to try to force someone to teach - no - they would expect that someone in this position would probably get their doctor to sign them off on "stress".
Do they want to engage in punitive legal action - unlikely. Specially if he said he was going to take them to a tribunal for discrimination and possibly constructive dismissal.
Teachers do occasionally break contract at this late date in my experience. It leaves the school in a hole, it being too late to recruit a replacement. The school will never give him a reference of course as they will always resent what he did.

merlotgran Wed 24-Jul-13 16:03:20

Do you mean he wants to job share with another part-time teacher? It's a way of cutting hours and I worked 60/40% with another part-timer prior to retiring.

Ariadne Wed 24-Jul-13 15:59:59

It can be done, in that he can resign but will be breaking his contract, which raises legal issues, and which could mean that another school might be unwilling to employ him.

Resignations have to be in by certain dates; the summer one is the end of May. Schools then can know what staff they have, and the numbers they will need, for September, and timetables, class lists, subject options and so on can be finalised. Yes, it is enforceable.

But I agree with bluebell that the gender issue might swing it. But - a note of caution - if that didn't work, it might not be very pleasant going back to work there...

bluebell Wed 24-Jul-13 15:50:18

Has he talked to his union about the fact that there has been gender discrimination? If he flies that kite, the school may well allow him to go at the end of August to avoid a fuss but he needs to be absolutely clear of the women's cases

gillybob Wed 24-Jul-13 15:45:12

Not sure how flexi time for teachers could possibly work. Surely the school day is the school day. What would be the point of a teacher saying that they want to come in to work extra early or work extra late if there are no children around at that time. confused

merlotgran Wed 24-Jul-13 15:42:28

Yes they can, Deeda. A teacher has to give three month's notice but holiday times don't count so his notice will run from the start of the next academic year in September.