Expensive holidays during school breaks. What do we think.

I used to dread the annual school trip. There may be advantages for teachers taking older children on skiing trips for example (no..step away slowly from that on Aka...perhaps not) but primary are hard work.

I assure you it's weeks of planning and paperwork. Risk assessments coming out your ears. Then the 24/7 supervision. By the time time you've got them unpacked, fed, washed, put to bed and eventually asleep all you want to do is crawl into your own bed. Then there's always one that's sick, homesick or fallen our with their room mates. There's picky eaters, lost clothes, poor weather, etc to deal with and the list goes on.

Believe me it is not for the faint hearted and during this my own family had to fend for themselves at home.

Re taking children out of school for family holidays. Those who choose to do so, like the family fined, at the beginning of a new school year, cause terrible disruption to their education.

The problem is When, that as soon as you go down the route of educational visits versus "swanning off to Benidorm" or a holiday camp or Disney or.... Then someone has to decide what is "worthwhile" and I think headteachers / governors / schools have more important things to do. They would then have to justify and defend decisions. "Oh no, not Benidorm, but Segovia is OK". Not practical really.
I have worked with schools who had to spend lots of valuable time chasing poor attendance and unauthorised absence. That is bad enough, without complicated arguments about which holidays are worthwhile.
I have never heard of term-time holidays in France, but then the holidays are much longer. Not sure people would like that though?

As Margaret says, you can't always pick and choose your holidays. I'm in favour of giving children the variety and experiences of holidays and adventures that aren't hidebound by school restrictions, and that enhance their childhood experiences. It's policy to impose constraints and penalties at the moment, and in a few years the pendulum will swing to widening the choice to take children out of school for just a few days if necessary, and where practical, when it is realised that all the attempts to cram learning into children the current way haven't worked. It's more complex than just ensuring the child is present every single day. What they learn outside school, whilst playing and having breaks with mum and dad is important, too.

I don't have a problem with people not agreeing with me. For me, school is a part of education, not all of it. Important, yes, but not to the extent that the tail is wagging the dog when there is good reason for taking children on holiday, but prevented because current policy and bureaucracy makes it impossible.

We aren't talking here about frivolous decisions to swan off to Benidorm on a whim. Many parents don't have access to the dates that schools work to, and/or feel penalised because the holiday they want shoots up in cost at end of term time. Some years they can fit in with the school, but in the years when it's just not working for them to do that, let's see some understanding and flexibility.

There is a lot of good evidence that shows that poor attendance has a significant negative impact on progress. I think most people would agree that it is important that all pupils make as much progress in their learning as possible. For that, they need to be in school. I realise that an educational visit somewhere with parents can be beneficial, but I think it is unrealistic to expect schools to spend valuable time deciding which term-time holidays might be educationally beneficial and which are not.
It would be very nice if holiday companies did not charge so much more in school holidays, but they are businesses seeking to make a profit.
There are ways to have cheaper holidays, including house swaps.

re school trips, in my school governor days the GB introduced a rule whereby teachers organising a school trip in the school holidays were not allowed to take any of their own children with them. Conflict of interest between the responsibilities of parenthood and group leading...
Teachers go free of course. I think some of these trips are organised mainly because teachers want to go skiing etc. Not always, but in some cases.
I also did not like the fact that there were these expensive holidays being organised when the majority of pupils very poor.
The chap in the story wants parliament to stop travel companies charging higher rates, not stop schools penalising parents. As if the government are ever going to do that.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25894902

And independent schools break up earlier in the summer than state schools hence the families can take advantage of the cheaper rate. Win win.

Many years ago took DD1 out of school for the last fortnight of reception year - form teacher said she would learn more going to France for 2 weeks than in last two weeks of term . Only did it the once, we could not have gone another time, DH was in the Forces, you can't pick and choose your holidays when in a job like that.

My eldest GD is 7. She is very bright (despite the school she attends). She has just joined a French club and is doing very well indeed. I can only begin to imagine how exciting it would be for her to actually go to France. But hey I forgot, that's only for the very rich kids and their families isn't it? Not for the working class on a council housing estate. Silly me.

I believe this rule does not apply to independent schools so once again it is one rule for the rich etc. In this area many people have seasonal jobs in the tourist industry and cannot take time off in school holidays. They receive minimum wage and cannot afford holidays even in this country. If they do take a week off they will probably lose their job because there are lots of people ready to take their place. This law was introduced to reduce truancy levels but l guess the persistent truants will still not be attending school and every other parent is penalised.

Granjura - I do realise it has been the rule for years. DS and DiL booked some months ago, but it is only very recently that fines have been stringently imposed on parents; previously the HT was allowed some discretion but not any more. It is up to some bureaucrat at County level to decide and of course they will levy a fine. Some parents will take their children out for long periods even when they are older, but in foundation phase I think it is unreasonable to enforce the rule; it should be at the discretion of the HT. More time is wasted in Welsh schools learning enforced Welsh than will be lost by a week away in term time having new experiences across the Channel.
Just because some of us on this forum are not teachers does not mean we are stupid.

I can see all points of view but, on balance, I think that a family holiday is very valuable these days as people are under so much pressure. Of course, there are lovely places to visit in Britain but the weather is so unpredictable that it can be very dispiriting to spend one or two weeks trying to think of things to do in the rain. Anyway, hotels are very expensive in the UK and even hiring a caravan for a week or two during high season is surprisingly pricey. Centreparks are massively expensive.

We took our children on a 6 week holiday abroad when they were 6 and 13 years old (this included some of the Christmas break). It was the first time my children and I had been able to meet up with my husband's side side of our family (and the first time we had been abroad). Some may call that irresponsible, but we took work for the children to do while we were away and I feel that the experience they gained in experiencing a different culture was valuable. They weren't behind when they got back to school. Thereafter, we nearly always took holidays during term time and I don't think it affected their education.

It seems to me that well-off families will not be especially badly affected if they have their holidays in "high season", whereas those who are struggling will have to forego a holiday abroad - and possibly any holiday at all.

As to the remark about "freebies" for teachers when they take children on school trips, I would imagine many teachers would be outraged by this. It is a great responsibility keeping several young people safe. I can't imagine teachers enjoying a particularly relaxing "holiday".

School trips are nearly always in the holidays or right at the end of the summer term.
I really can't see why the holiday companies are being criticised. Take the average caravan park. Empty all winter. Partly filled for spring and autumn and fully booked in summer holidays. In order to stay in business they have to charge the rate they can get in the summer holidays. The cheaper prices out of school holidays are set a level that will encourage other holiday makers to book and get some income from the caravans. What on earth is wrong with that as a way of doing business? Why is this "money grubbing". If businesses don't make a profit and manage cash flow, they cease to exist fairly rapidly
Schools make a fuss about attendance partly because the government put on the pressure re attendance figures.
There have also been problems with immigrant families wafting the kids off for a couple of months to visit grandparents in Pakistan etc etc, sometimes leaving the school uncertain whether or not to take the child off the school roll. That needed to be discouraged as it really did have an impact on education.

Well I almost never did holidays in term time but then my Dad was a technical college lecturer. Having once been away for the first couple of days at the beginning of a new school year I missed so much with regard to organisation etc, that it was very awkward trying to catch up etc.

Merlot of course you are right - it was the end of April so just after the Easter holidays and I remember now that the exams I had to reschedule were A level German Orals which fortunately I was conducting, but as I remember they had to be completed by a certain date. 2 candidates had long circuitous overland journeys home (incuding retrieving family cars from airports) - at least it gave then something interesting to talk about in the section on holidays and leisure!!

Like you granjura I gave up many half term holidays or a week in the school holidays to taking exchanges, while having to make arrangements for the DDs and the dog left at home! The planning alone was a shedload of work, organising travel, currency, chasing up their passports, filling in pages of risk assessments and then lots of stress and very little sleep while we were away!

Sorry Nonu, I should not have lost my cool. Apologies.

One day when I've calmed down I'll explain why your remark really upset me, knowing the HUGE amount of work involved with orgainising the kind of school trips I used to organise (many in my own holidays and wee-ends btw).

Soutra, The volcanic ash cloud problem happened during the school holidays. We had students that couldn't get back in time for the start of term and staff stuck in USA and various exotic places. You can't expect families not to have a holiday in case a volcano erupts.

Nfk - what small mercies? Centreparks is supposed to be family-oriented.

Similar hike in Haven Holidays prices, and they're just basic UK resorts.

I can understand the views of both sides, but the HUGE price increases for school holiday periods are so annoying when trying to plan a well-deserved family holiday!

Thank you granjura !!

Last year we had intended to have a family holiday - everyone - and Centreparks looked ideal. Went on line and prices are THREE times higher in school holidays. Had a moan to DD2 and she said the CEO of Centreparks claims they don't put the prices up in the holidays, they drop them in term time due to lack of demand. Perhaps we should be grateful for small mercies.

NONU it is best that I do not reply re your FREEBIE, really. You have not got a clue, have you.

Sorry about all the black - I got my asterisks in a muddle - I was not shouting!!!

Lots of things to add:
1) Our DDs only ever had holidays in school holidays - usually a rented cottage in Cornwall/Scotland/Herfordshire - money was short as I wasn't working. I'm not sure there was a premium in school holiday time in our day, but never applied to us anyway
2) I get cross when parents are prepared to spend a small fortune (or so it seems) on massively exotic holidays - I have heard of Sri Lanka, Mexico, South America as well as the usual Orlando etc and then cavil at paying a bit more.
3) I agree with the point about school trips, but let no one ever think they are a holiday for staff!! (February half term was a particular favourite - knackering!! My old school had exclusion zones in the year when NO trips of any sort were allowed
4) I was on occasion iless than chuffed when asked to provide extra work and then revision lessons after school for students taking holidays in term time.
5) Equally incensing was making special arrangements for studetns caught in the volcanic ash cloud problem and in danger of missing an exam - again, I would maintain they shouldn't have been away!
Finally, many people cannot afford a holiday of any sort*(including me even when working but DH unemployed/ill) so I am not automatically sympathetic when parents claim they *must have a holiday
Many of us have different expectations and priorities, I can only asnwer for myself as a parent and a teacher, but it seems a sad reflection of what many people deem inportant.

Surely it doesn't matter if you go abroad or not. Holidays with children as just more expensive during school breaks. As a child my dad's firm closed in June for a week so that's when we went on holiday. It certainly didn't spoil my education to have a week out of the school year every year. If you are going to go away three or four times a year I can see the school's point, but one one two weeks? Come on it doesn't make that much difference.

What an excellent post ANNIE .
Surely a slight case of "Don"t do what I do , Do what I tell you .
On these school trips of course the teachers get a "Freebie".
Why wouldn't they organise them ?

If a child being absent for a week causes such disruption for the teacher then I question school trips. Twelve months ago my elder granddaughter went to America with the school, this was during the months leading up to her GCSE exams- only three went from her form, there were not enough students from the upper sixth so students one year down were included . This February younger granddaughter - in her first year of GCSE exams- is going skiing in Austria, organised by head of maths , how come teachers are not struggling to bring these children up to scratch ? What difference in a week at the coast and a week in New York or Austria to staff? Not including the staff who escort the students on these field trips