Is this legal?

TravelerIdeas. You dug deep for this old thread, didn't you!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Obviously not much crime going on in Palm Springs at the moment...

Old thread resurrected?

Many employers have chosen to stop asking for ages or dates of birth on application forms. However, although they must comply with data protection law in handling job applications, it is not automatically unlawful for employers to ask for this information.

Thanks for the responses, it has given me even more to think about, but in a good way!



Of to bed now, need to be on good form tomorrow.

How much do you want this job? It might be worth just applying anyway if you really want to give it a try. Make an asset of your apparent disadvantages.

If you would really like to go for it, I would fill it all in with a covering note (or use any bit of the form that gives you freedom to add your own comments) to the effect that you are aware of the reluctance of some employers to hire older workers or those with any health problems, but that you feel you have a great deal to offer in the way of life experience and that your negative experiences as well as positive ones have shaped your approach to work and have given you strength and compassion ....etc. - you will know what to put I am sure.

Sometimes it is good to get in first with something to defuse their possible negative response. Must be worth a try!

I suspect that you have to be prepared to definitely NOT get the job if you go ahead with that plan. However, it is possible that someone reading your carefully worded email may appreciate your honesty, and take a closer look at your details. That alone could be worth taking the risk - and getting them to look again at you must be a good thing.

Could you copy in the people at the job centre? They have a certain interest in this, as they send people for the positions.

Sorry to bump, but would appreciate some input/thoughts.

Thank you.

Still waiting to hear from Richard at JC!

The more I think about it, the more I consider sending an email thanking them for sending the application form, but explaining why I won't be progressing my application further.

The wording would need some careful thought, but something along the lines of why I would be a good candidate, but also my experience of ageism during my job hunting, which has made me reluctant to supply info that shows my age. Perhaps as well mention how I realise the importance of being honest when filling in these damn things, but having to disclose that I am being treated for anxiety and depression (caused in the main by being unemployed following redundancy) is a step too far.

I have just had my daily phone chat with Mr P. His suggestion was unprintable!

Although in all fairness, the form is only 2 pages so shouldn't cause too much discomfort..........................

Thank you Mishap

Ana Richard wont be in until later today, I have left a message for him. I did speak to one of his colleagues on Monday, but tbh she wasn't especially helpful, and admitted that it was not an area she knows much about.

Although the form asks what salary you are looking for, the job ad actually states the pay is National Minimum Wage!

That is so difficult phoenix - they are not supposed to not shortlist you on the basis of a medical condition or disability, and they will justify the question by saying that it is so they can accommodate your needs if you are appointed - hmmm.

I know that when I was shortlisting people I was working in an LA/NHS caring profession so we were meticulous about not discriminating; but small companies are in a Catch 22 - in their hearts they may want to be be fair, but they have to balance the books and cannot afford to have someone off sick for any length of time (as you rightly - and very honestly - observed in your previous post).

You are in a very difficult bind with skills to offer and itching to do so, but limitations placed on you by the recurrence of the depression when you least want it. I honestly do not know what I would have done if my illness had struck when I was working - as it is I am able to pick and choose what I do as I retired at 60 and my life is my own - as far as anyone's life is their own when depression strikes.

I can only wish you lots of luck - your keenness to work and your integrity shine through - there just needs to be some way of potential employers latching on to that.

Did the JC get back to you, phoenix?

This form gets better and better (NOT)

How about this one then :

Do you have any diagnosed medical conditions?
If so, please state what they are.

"Oh yes, Ms. HR Person, I am being treated for on-going anxiety and depression, sorry that I'm not a black disabled lesbian with learning difficulties, that would probably get me on the shortlist to help you reach your quota, but the best I can manage is being over 55 with mental health problems"

There is a comment by Roz Altmann in today's DT about asking for dates of qualifications pointing out that even if dates are not given it can be worked out by whether they are o-levels or GCSE's, approx, of course.But certainly picking out older candidates.

Hope he has soe positive help for you tomorrow phoenix

Morning all, and thanks again for the replies.

I received an email from Richard (JC adviser that I sent the form to) asking me to ring him to discuss, unfortunately I didn't see it until after 5.30pm, but will call him on Monday.

It will be interesting to hear his thoughts! By the way, he is a specialist adviser for Job Seekers over 50.

Difficult. I would fill in the required fields but write a cheeky application anticipating the potential issues of age / previously higher salary.

"The advantage I bring to a post like this is my extensive experience and proven work history at a time in my life when I can be content with a more modest salary. It is a win win situation for The Naughty Questions Company."

I am not suggesting gaps or evasive answers. I am merely suggesting that questions about salary can reasonably be left blank.

I have been on the other side of the interview table and I certainly read CVs with an eye to gaps and evasions in the main body of a form, but I never took any notice of unanswered peripheral questions. Potential job applicants who rang up with sensible doubts/queries about the form or the job also got a positive reception. Good employers want staff who can work on their own initiative, staff they can confidently delegate work to not jobsworths or sheep.

PS Phoenix exactly the same reason I stopped working, so definitely empathise ((hugs)).
Am now retraining and keeping everything crossed!

I agree Riverwalk
I'd not bother to continue shortlisting an application with gaps or evasive answers. You need to really sell yourself in the 'Reason for applying' or 'additional or supporting evidence' bit, usually towards the end of the application form.

Phoenix also make sure you refer to the Person Spec and cover all the essential and desirable requirements. If you can't do/ don't have some of them try to say why and what other transferable skills you have.
Generally if you do this you will be shortlisted for interview as meeting the requirements.
If you don't then phone and ask nicely why and how could you have improved your application.

It's the supporting evidence bit which would catch my eye - and can be very enlightening- when I was recruiting staff last year.

Good Luck & fingers crossed for you x

Riverwalk has a point, if you want he job, the first essential is to get an interview.

Admittedly I haven't worked for about 10 years, but while I would never dodge answering substantial questions about education, career, and skills. I think questions on salary, past or future, and other peripheral questions can, with discretion, be safely ignored.

In the past I have had to job hunt when it was an employers market and when it was permissible to discriminate against women because they had children and ask questions about childcare, family plans and a whole range of topics that are now forbidden. I can remember filling in forms that inquired about my religion for no obvious reason. I left that question blank.

Not all employers are looking for obedient sheep. Some employers look well on potential employees who are prepared to question things.

It is not what you do, it is the way that you do it.