It isn't set in stone just yet, he has talked to tutors from both courses. He says the course he is on. although he has enjoyed it, isn't really stretching him enough so he hasn't enjoyed it as much this past year, and next year's modules don't inspire him. Part of me wonders if he is just feeling a bit flat now that the year has ended, but he does have time to think it over. I think his father is more worried than me, as he really regrets having given up a music degree for one in engineering, all I could think was, like father, like son!

Ds says that the course isn't teaching him the techniques he needs to know how to do on his computer to produce the music he wants to, and computer sciences will give him that knowledge. He isn't thinking of giving up music, he is thinking of taking a more flexible degree. My main worry is that he will lose the chance to perform and make contacts, as he will be in an entirely different building away from the arty musical film-making and drama lot who have been using his music so far.

Engineering pays the bills and feeds the family, music feed the soul, he will always have music in his life even if it doesn't pay the bills. Our Son had dreams of becoming a professional bass player (he was good, but not that good !). He played and toured with a Punk/skar band for a couple of years, now he plays in a folk group that does charity gigs, so it is still in his soul. One member of his band did go on to become a professional session guitarist.
As far as composers go,most of them don't make fame until they are, how can I delicately put this - dead

He isn't after that sort of fame, he wants to write music for computer games. He would love to write for film, but says that there are hundreds of people out there wanting the same thing who are miles better than he is.

When he started his degree, did he think that it would give him the skills that he needed? Did you?
Or have they altered the course in some way? Or has he changed his goals along the way?

Sorry. If you dont mind me asking. Those questions are a bit intrusive.

janerowena, so a computer course could be a good partnership with his music studies. Getting a job in a particular sector is all down to perseverance and cheek, you just have to keep banging on doors.

That's the problem - he doesn't do cheek and self-advertising. He does quiet and ironic and dry. He isn't at all pushy. He does push to a point, he lacks self-consciousness, but is too polite for today, I think.

soon it's a new course, composing for film and gaming, but he says the tutors are some years behind and still trying to get them to make music from bottles filled with water and children's squeaky toys, when everyone knows that all that is needed is a good computer with the right software and a sound knowledge of music. Some of the modules have been fine, others are dated. I feel for the tutors. He says he would be better off learning from the technical support guy!

He wrote this one night when he couldn't get to sleep.

soundcloud.com/mooglemusic/anthem-for-no-sleep

My son did a degree in music and ended up being a music teacher. His friends did courses in audio and lighting technology and they are more involved in the practical world of music than he is. He's often wished he'd changed courses.

The trouble is, so few schools do music now. Percussion, some guitar, that's it. He would hate that.

Not true. He has taught kids who are now in the Guildhall School of Music.
He teaches woodwind and brass instruments, and all kids compose their own music. He wishes there were more students taking music, but that has always been the case.

I feel for your son and for you. The course he is on doesnt seem to meet his needs.
I hope the change of course works out.

I am going by the schools around here, durhamjen. When the last head of music died at DBH's school he had to take it over temporarily, and interview the applicants. They had hundreds of applications, all had been made redundant because the department had been downsized and dumbed down. One said that when the electric piano died in his school, they refused to replace it. Maybe different economies are made in different areas. Local primary schools are bringing instrument peris in one day a week, and the parents have to pay rather than drive them miles away for lessons after school. The form teachers are expected to organise any events. Which is back to how it used to be, isn't it.

Going back to the OP, mortgage lending in London has gone down by 16%.
However, first time buyers are still taking out an average of over £235,000.
How can they afford that?

www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/council-of-mortgage-lenders-cml/article/london-house-purchase-lending-down-16-year-on-year-in-first

I read the link. The first time buyers have gross income of £55k. And were lent 3.86 multiple or whatever the exact figures were. So affordable I would have thought?

How is it affordable soon?

Have you worked out what the repayments would be out of net income?

No. But I do know some London figures. And people who have that sort of mortgage. They used a family friend financial advisor, who went through all their figures with them.
If you want to provide me with a breakdown of figures, that would be good. Plus people who earn those sorts of figures, tend to be reliable and do their figures and their homework first. Very much so.
So I cant see why it isnt affordable, and why you are saying that it is not. Are the figures scaring you?

You have to be prepared to work hard though.

Or do you mean that most first time buyers are not on £55k, and that is not realistic for most? In which case I agree.

soon undoubtedly there are some fortunate people being paid these sort of salaries, but my DD as a newly qualified teacher on current starting salary of just over £22,000 will not be in the queue for a mortgage.

Er, why would I want to provide you with a breakdown of figures - you're the one who's saying it's affordable?

On what do you base that assertion on someone earning 55,00 gross?

You said it was affordable - explain how.

I haven't mentioned people who are not on 55,000 and it's nothing to do with having to work hard - so stop trying to de-rail the gist of what we are discussing.

I am not having the derail stuff said again. gransnet HQ are happy, so it is a non argument.

Riverwalk, you appear not to have read dj's link. The £55k bit is in there.

Plus, I think what youmean by affordable, and what I mean by affordable are two different things.

I meant, and I will repeat, is that if you are earning £55k, then the mortgage is affordable.

I agree with your post GillT57.

I haven't said anything is affordable?

I have read everything in this thread.

I discussed this thread with our daughter, all of her friends are buying houses (as are our sons friends). She pointed out that whilst we would have bought houses in our early twenties, most of her friends have not bought until they are 25-30. Graduates by this time should be earning a good salary sufficient to get a mortgage on a starter home. Certainly both our children are earning far more than I ever earned even allowing for inflation, it would have been a waste of their studies and fees if they weren't capable of earning such a salary. I would certainly hope that any graduates would have more than £55 as a joint salary by the time they are 30.

I have only spoken about graduates as they were being discussed earlier and I no personal experience other than that. Also, neither of our children could have afforded a property in London (not that they wanted one), even 50 years ago we had to move out of London to be able to afford to buy.

pompa 50 years ago there were affordable properties in London if you were prepared to take a risk. Of course they were in what were then 'dodgy' areas and many people, especially families were not prepared to do this. Some people did- a friend bought a property in what was then seen as a run down part of London and sold it a few years ago for over 1 mill. Where was it? Notting Hill! Now there aren't even those