Wills - leaving to children or grandchildren?

I haven't read all the posts here, but just want to take a moment to jump in and say a few things. For now, DH and I have reciprocal wills, where each lives our estate to the other and then the second one leaves it in equal amounts to each DD. We trust them to use/leave money to our GC as they see fit. Anything we want to give to the GC, specifically (money for college and such), we're doing now, while we're alive.

In fact, like some of you here, we're gradually giving out money to our DDs while we're living rather than have them "wait till we die" for everything. I'm more into this than DH who worries more that we may not be holding on to enough for ourselves. So we compromise on the amounts.

We also have some accounts in trust for our DDs that will go straight to them (if we haven't given out the money already or it hasn't gone to nursing care), also divided equally. If I outlive DH, I'm thinking of fixing it so that most of my estate, however small, is handled this way. Then not too much will have to go through a will.

LynnC, I hope this hasn't already been said (as I mentioned, I haven't read all the posts), but as much as I feel for your son, I don't think it's that unusual that your XH's new wife got the larger share of XH's estate. If XH wanted your son to get more of it, he could/should have made provisions for that. I'm so sorry that he didn't. Nor do I think that speculating about what he'll get from his GF was fair - who knows what can happen? And, IMO, it was kind of cruel to make your son his executor and then leave him so little. Your X probably didn't mean to be cruel and didn't think he was cuz of GF's money and so forth. But still, I think it was unfair and I'm so very sorry.

Reported.

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Re the situation about DH inheriting. If your SIL is a b***, and you want to ensure that he cant get his hands on your estate, I would advise leaving a trust for daughter/grandchildren, which she/they could claim on divorce, widowhood or other coming of age. Or leave to another family member whom you trust to protect her/their interests. I accept that it can be a serious problem, but there is probably a way round it. Of course, if he is a nice lad, the situation probably shouldn't cause concern.

Because of family estrangement, MIL has said she doesn't want my two daughters to receive anything from her estate, so everything my OH has comes to me, but I've just set up my will that a fixed sum from my estate goes into trust to be divided equally between any GC, with my son as administrator. Unless the girls meet him in person, proving the existence of their children within 5 years of my death, the trust fund reverts to any children he may have - if none, he inherits everything. The reason for this stipulation is to try to rebuild bridges between the 3 siblings, but he has already said that since he will be relatively comfortably off, even if the girls don't choose to allow their children to benefit, he will try to trace all grands and split their money between them. Wish things weren't bitter and acrimonious, but don't know what else I can do in the circumstances?

You are very kind to give us this info iaincam I will get advice after Christmas. Thank you.

It is possible to effect a unilateral severance of tenancy to create a tenancy in common even if your spouse has lost capacity, the problem is while you can make a new Will, they can't.
The rules on disregarding property are to be found in Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide (CRAG) gov.wales/docs/dhss/publications/150427crag2015en.pdf which hasn't altered for years, at 7.003 it says where a resident no longer occupies their home its value it is still disregarded for capital purposes if it is occupied "in whole or in part" by a partner or a relative aged over 60 or who is incapacitated. I have included a link for the Welsh version, but it holds for England as well.

I had understood that the LA could take a charge on 50% of the property if it is co-owned with a spouse and one partner has to go into long-term care.

Is this no longer true, iaincam?

Thank you iaincam for that reassurance. It has been very concerning to me as H has Alzheimer's and we had made wills before his diagnosis and I knew that we could not change from joint tenants to tenants in common after his diagnosis.

annsixty, if you are still living in the family home when your husband needs care it will be disregarded when calculating his capital. Half of his pension income will also be disregarded as he still has a duty to maintain you and contribute towards your costs even if he is in care. Only other capital in his own name or half of joint investments totalling more than the statutory limit where you live will be "in play". Once his capital has gone down to the minimum limit all he will have to pay is half of his pension less the personal allowance (around £23 a week for toiletries, haircuts etc.). The local authority should then top this up to their published amount.

The local authority cannot touch your savings in your own name, but some have been known to use emotional blackmail to get spouses to "voluntarily" top up fees to get a nicer room or better placement.

It sounds as if it is "foreseeable" your husband needs care so you cannot use trusts while you are both alive, but you could still do some planning for post death using Wills.

I would second trisher's warning above. A young person I know was left some money by his GF and has found himself being exploited by drug-takers who know he has access to money.

I wish we had had this advice years ago so that we made proper provision taking care into consideration. My H will probably need care and I would be left in a very difficult financial situation. Our income comprises mainly his two pensions and I could not afford to run the house we currently live in and would get no help until I had spent all my savings except for £10,000. If we sell the house that is more to go towards care costs. I am not trying to avoid care cost, just trying to ensure I don't end up with nothing to live on.

It certainly makes sense for a couple to sever a joint tenancy so they each own half of the family home, each then creates a property trust in their Will so that the survivor has a right to live there for their life(and can downsize if needed), but on the second death it passes to the children/gc in whatever proportion you wish. This means that if the survivor needs care only their half of the property (which is arguably worth less than half because the other half is owned by a trust) is available for means testing and the other half will not be taken by the local authority.
If there are step children each spouse could leave their half to their own children if wanted.
I would sometimes then recommend a discretionary trust of the residue so your trustees can decide who gets what in the future, to cope with changing family circumstances (divorce, bankruptcy, receipt of state benefits, substance abuse or whatever).

Yep leaving it to our two children and I hope they put some aside for the GC for uni etc . Thankfully I will not be here to worry about it . There was such a todo when DH father died ( he left the lot to his eldest son from his first marriage ) that we know it can cause real rifts if some get more than others or a percentage goes to the GC thus leaving less to a child with no kids . Best to leave it up the the DC .

We need to update our will to include two grandchildren.

My parents left 50% of their estate to my sister and I and split the rest fairly between their four grand children (then into their 20s).
My sister and I had two children each.

I have a girl and a boy my daughter has two small sons and my son who is not married to his partner do not look like they will have any.

My son is a fairly high earner my daughter and husband are not. I am thinking this way.

I will be 80 when my DGS1 is 18. I don't know how fit and active either of us might be then but we could potentially both need care. a

So what sort of split would be sensible? I would like to go for say 50% to our kids and to split the remainder between "any living GCS.

All this has given me cause to reflect on our wills. We changed the ones we'd made years previously after dealing with my mother's estate 3 years ago. She and my father (who had passed away 2 years before her) had left everything to me as their only child with a small bequest to each of my children - their estate only consisted of their small property. Having been in care for the last 3 years of her life and only fully funded for the final year the council took a sizeable chunk from the balance. Our solicitor advised that to avoid a similar situation on our estate we should each leave 50% of it to the other with the other 50% being split equally between our 2 sons with the proviso that the remaining parent should be able to stay in the property until their death. This would mean that should that parent end up in care (a pretty high bet in my case!) the council could only base the costs on the smaller sum. At the time only one of our sons had children but subsequently and quite late in life (he was 40) our other son has now given us two grandsons and lives on the other side of the world. They are both lovely, caring guys and I know that they will each look out for their kids but the elder ones children are now grown and he has a very good well paid job, owns his own home and his wife works part time. The younger one has always struggled for money due to his choice of work and with two small children things will not get easier as they grow as his wife can't work until they're older. Maybe we need to revisit our decision but I can't help feeling the eldest would think it grossly unfair for us to favour his brother that way - since they emigrated they've grown apart - not for any other reason than the logistics of contact. I'd hate to think that when we'd gone they ended up falling out and never speaking to each other. When my in-laws passed on (all 4 of our parents went within 2 years of each other) they had left their estate to be divided equally between their 3 children. With each of them having their own kids (and grandchildren) it seemed the fairest way to do it and my husband gave some of his share in turn to our sons split equally between them. It gave us the greatest pleasure ever to have a small party and give each of them and our granddaughters a package containing cash (and a cheque for each son). As they'd not been expecting it it made even more special. Together with what they received from mine they all spent/saved it wisely and we know their grandparents would have approved. I think a talk with my other half today about all this might be on the cards :-)

Auntiejantie is nearly correct. Since 2014 if your estate is worth less than £250,000 and you die without a Will everything goes to the surviving spouse, then if they die intestate just to their children. If the estate is worth more than that the survivor gets the personal possessions, the first £250,000 and half the balance, the rest goes to the deceased's children. Either way one set of stepchildren get nothing (unless you make a Will!)

Our wills leave everything to our two children, with a small stated amount to the GC and a few other small bequests. It also states that it one of our children pre-deceased us, then half of their share will go to their spouse and the remaining half be divided between their children but held in trust until they are 21.

The first bequest to the GC is small so can be made immediately. The second would be considerable (from the sale of our house) and therefore would need to be held back until they were more mature.

Rhonab, please do make a will - both of you. If wills are not made, then surely either your child or your husband's children will inherit everything, depending on who is second to die - leaving the other child/children out all together?

We wanted to leave something to our grandchildren (we have ten!) so they would know how special they were to us and would have a small windfall to help them in some of the challenges of setting up home etc. Our wills specify 3% of our estate to each grandchild by name, in trust till they are 21, with the remainder split equally between our four children. All our children know our wishes and are happy with them.

My dear OH and I plan to leave everything divided equally between our children, one of whom is likely to have children and the other not. That's their choice. I think the lady who is planning to leave money to some of her children but skipping a generation to give the other child's share to the grandchildren should think again in all justice. Imagine being the 'left out' child. How heart breaking. You would think you were unloved and slighted. I am sure the lady did not mean this.

A relative left his money equally between DH and his sister and brother, but left his house to my sister-in-law, as she had been especially kind to him. We thought this was fine but she immediately arranged for the proceeds to be split 3 ways, a most generous unlooked-for gesture, typical of her.

We really need to get our fingers out and make a will! I have one daughter and my husband has a son and daughter (Scotland, Denmark and the US just to make things simple!) with our only granddaughter coming from my daughter.
Obviously when one of us dies the other will get everything, but when the remaining one dies too all 3 children should get a third of the estate. There is quite a discrepancy in their wealth/standard of living but we agree they should be treated equally regardless.

Our granddaughter is only 2 and of course there may be more to come, but we have a standing order paying into her back account every month and will do the same for any future grandchildren. If the parents want to give her/them something from us, that's up to them at the time!

My husband has a big pension fund we don't touch and is gathering much interest, so maybe we should get spending it before we get too old to enjoy it!!! ?

After experiencing a complicated will recently, I have re-made mine, simply leaving everything equally between my two sons. But I have asked them to give something appropiate to their respective children.
I honestly feel that this is the best way.