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Legal, pensions and money

Your thoughts please re : inheritance!!

(15 Posts)
gangy5 Sun 21-Aug-16 16:11:09

Hopefully I can keep this brief. My other half is German but has been living in England for nearly 60 years. His parents and brother lived in the Rhur district of Germany. 30 years ago his brother had to move to Hamburg (with wife) for his job After having lived there for a few years he suggested his elderly parents joined him and that they had a new house built between them. Parents sold their house with a large plot for redevelopment and put the money into the new house. We have no idea what proportion they paid but think it was about half. Parents died approx. 8 years ago and now brother is selling the house to move into a flat.

DO YOU THINK my BH is entitled to a share of what his parent's invested in the property.
Mother was always saying that he would get his fair share but in Germany it is not usual to make a will. The law is that everything goes to the siblings. Pity our law is not as cut and dried.

tanith Sun 21-Aug-16 16:15:24

Not much you can do about it if the brother is keeping it to himself. If the parents didn't make their wishes known and make provision for it to be carried out what choice do you have than to accept whats happened and let it go or risk spoiling the relationship between the siblings. Do you actually know that the brother isn't going to do the decent thing?

nanaK54 Sun 21-Aug-16 16:33:45

Yes I do actually
But not sure what you can do about it

SueDonim Sun 21-Aug-16 16:47:43

My Dh and I have never believed we're entitled to anything from our parents. As it happens, we did receive something from his parents after their deaths but had it all been left to his sister, who did the hard work of caring for their parents in old age and illness, that would have been fine by us.

Likewise my mum, who is still going strong. I don't expect anything from her. She can leave it all (it won't be much anyway) to the cat's home if she wants, or spend it all on wine, if that's what she fancies!

M0nica Sun 21-Aug-16 19:18:35

Can you talk to a lawyer specialising in German law? Ideally in Germany but some solicitors in Britain do specialise on the law of different countries. The Law Society www.lawsociety.org.uk/ should be able to help you find a suitable solicitor.

Ana Sun 21-Aug-16 19:39:31

When his parents died 8 years ago, did your husband receive his share of whatever money they had left?

They can't have invested all their cash in the new property bought with their other son, surely?

If the property was in joint names presumably the parents' share went directly to the co-owner so the inheritance rules wouldn't apply.

granjura Sun 21-Aug-16 20:48:11

8 years later - it won't be easy. I just did a Google with
UK solicitors specialising in German Law
and it came up with quite a few- look them up and see which one is nearer.

It's just as normal in Germany to make a will than in the UK. some people don't - and have no idea what troubles they pass on to their family. I have a friend in the UK who won't make a will because he thinks it's bad luck!

Well- good luck from me anyhow.

granjura Sun 21-Aug-16 20:51:51

Here is one in Germany where they speak English:

German Inheritance Law

Have you been left an inheritance by a relative who was living in Germany at the time they passed away? Are you unsure of how to obtain the inheritance and how German inheritance law works?

The German lawyers at WILDE BEUGER SOLMECKE have been advising clients on legal matters for over 20 years. If you have been left an inheritance by a relative who was living in Germany at the time of their death, you may feel daunted by the thought of having to navigate a complex and perhaps foreign legal system. Our team of German lawyers can help you understand how German inheritance law works and can assist you with accessing your inheritance.

For more information on German inheritance law call us on +49 (0) 221 / 9688 8160 29 or use our contact form.
A. Getting started

To help you get started, we have put together this overview of German inheritance law. It sets out the underlying principles of German inheritance law and gives a brief explanation of how German inheritance tax applies.

1. Do I need a will?

It is not obligatory to draft a will. If a person dies without leaving a will or if the will is invalid, the person’s estate will be distributed under statutory intestacy rules.

2. Grant of representation

A grant of representation (Erbschein) is a certificate which proves that an heir is entitled to the deceased person’s estate. Most banks and insurance companies ask to view the grant of representation before paying out any funds. A grant of representation is therefore required in most inheritance cases.

3. Executor or administrator

It is unusual in Germany for an executor or administrator to be appointed to administer a deceased person’s estate. The exceptional cases in which such a person may be appointed include: where it is expressly required by the will; where an expert is required in order to administer a complex estate (e.g. a business); if the heirs are minors or mentally disabled; or if it is expected that a dispute will later arise between the heirs.
B. Basic principles of German inheritance law

The basic underlying principle of German inheritance law is that of ‘universal succession’ (Gesamtrechtsnachfolge). The principle is set out in § 1922 German Civil Code (Bundesgesetzbuch, BGB).

Under the principle of universal succession, all rights and obligations of the deceased person transfer directly and immediately (at the second of death) to their heir(s). This means that no personal representative (including executive or administrator), trustee or court ruling is required in order for the deceased’s estate to pass to the heir(s).

If there is more than one heir to an estate, they form a so-called ‘community of heirs’ (Erbengemeinschaft). The community owns the estate together and must decide amongst themselves how to distribute it. In order to avoid disputes arising, it is advisable to draft a will in which either:

a) one heir is named, but then required to distribute the estate; or
b) in which all heirs are listed and the will determines how the estate is to be distributed amongst them.

As you can see, the estate is automatically divided among sibblings normally. Did your OH get his part at the time? But depending on how they helped financed your brother's house- it may be too late.

MargaretX Sun 21-Aug-16 21:19:30

Where there is no will the estate is divided between the siblings. After the last parent has died, the estate will be divided. Should they have made a will and left money to others then family has rights of one fourth of the full amount, to be paid out even if the house has to be sold to do this.

Very often in this case, the heirs buy out the other in order to keep the house.
All this should have been decided after the death,if not he is allowed it now with interest. i.e. a quarter of the estate divided by how many siblings there are. That is due to him.
I think I've got that right.

MargaretX Sun 21-Aug-16 21:22:41

This is German law and I hope he gets his share. The price of the house after the deaths not what the house is worth now.

granjura Sun 21-Aug-16 22:18:25

just depends how the parents' money was invested in the new house though. If they gave the money without paperwork- it may not be easy to prove- especially after so many years. It should really have been challenged immediately after their demise.

gangy5 Sun 21-Aug-16 22:44:58

Many thanks to you all for you comments and help. H ave come on here a bit late and so, as I'm rather weary, I can't put you in the picture tonight!
Have my grandson to entertain tomorrow so will carry on later tomorrow.

gangy5 Tue 23-Aug-16 14:44:01

Well, I've now had time to read all your comments properly and many thanks to you all again!

tanith The house is on the market but hasn't been sold yet. There has been no mention of brother offering other brother a share.

SueDonim I understand your point about not expecting anything from your parents. Perhaps you are A OK in that you have provided well for later life and are comfortably off. DH and myself were in the hotel trade and at that time did not have the opportunity of a company pension or earn enough to invest. We therefore would be grateful of a small inheritance as we only have the state pension.

MOnica thanks for the web address.

Ana Actually his Mum died 8 years ago but father some time before that. She was in a nursing home for 3 years and so there wasn't much cash left. He had a half share of what remained in the bank account - approx. £4,000.
Why would you think that if the brother was co-owner of the house the other half would automatically go to him on his Mother's death?

granjura thank you for your fulsome contribution. As you will see from a former comment, at the time he received £4000 which was half of the monies remaining in the bank.

MargaretX
By rights I suppose my DH could have demanded, at the time of death, that the house be sold so that he could have his share but not being inclined to do that it looks as though he might lose out now. Your comments have been very helpful.

My DH is the soft and gentle sort and would never be inclined to ask 'the question' as to how the house was bought and the details of payment. On the other hand his brother has not been forthcoming as to any of the financial arrangements made with his mother. Between them they also bought a property in Spain - financials not divulged there either!!
Yes, my DH would probably leave things be but, as we're not in a great financial situation I'm finding myself fighting his corner.

aggie Tue 23-Aug-16 14:55:33

If one child takes on the care of parents do you not think they should keep the house ? If they shared a car with the parents do you think sale of the car results in sharing the proceeds ? Why is a house any different

Ana Tue 23-Aug-16 15:18:57

gangy, in this country at least if a property is owned jointly with another person as beneficial joint tenants (not tenants in common) then their half would automatically pass to the co-owner in the event of death.