Care costs

I can only think of one in our wider family who went into a care home, she has just died peacefully. She was there for about 2 years. In her case I think it might have been difficult to rent out the house because it had been neglected for so long. I think that might be the case with a lot of older people.

Thanks MOnica useful to know.

The 2011 census showed that only 10% of men and 20% of women over 85 were in care. In other words the proportion of older people needing care is a relatively small proportion of the total.

Springychicken My experience is similar to yours. My DF was one of 11 children, with their spouses a sample of 20. Only 2 went into a care home, although 2 spent the last few months of their lives in a nursing home.

I think worries about the need for care plays such a large part in older people's lives because the cost of good quality care is expensive and the length of time people spend in a care home is growing and is already nearly 3 years. This can swallow all of someone's capital and put a burden on family finances,

Does anyone actually know what percentage of people end up in a residential or care home? Both my parents, my MIL, FIL, brother and SIL are dead and none of them ended up in homes. Perhaps we are just fortunate and non representative.

My friend's mother had dementia and had to go into a home - probably for three of four years - until she died. Despite pressure from the LA, my friend refused to sell her mother's house and rented it out instead to offset the care home charges. There was a shortfall to which she contributed but even so, she could not meet the whole shortfall. So money was owed to the LA and paid off when her mother died, again using the rent from the tenant.
The LA pressured her from the outset to sell the property but she managed to resist. I'm not sure how great the arrears have to be before the LA can force a sale but it would be worth investigating.

Yes, there are, and I have told my children to make sure that if I go in a care home, it is one that doesn't accept LA funders.

I am quite happy to pay extra taxes as part of the main tax system to make sure that the money is available to ensure that all older people in need get the decent care they require, but I refuse to pay a hidden tax that specifically targets only older people when they are at their weakest and most needy because the government hasn't got the guts to come clean about the real cost of care.

Are there care homes which don't take people funded by the LA? I do think it is wrong that self-funders subsidise those who are LA supported. Yes, I know some people cannot afford to pay and have not been in a position to save but I don't think that is true in every case.

I think the number relying on the state will increase dramatically in the future and the reason is that some of those of 55 and over are selling their pensions and enjoying the money now because they think that their pensions are so small they might as well let the state pick up the slack. This opinion is based upon someone I know who has done just that. At the age of 55 is is quite easy to assume that by the age of 70 one will be beyond enjoying the extra money a private pension might bring.

I think you can give your home to your relatives and not pay rent. However, it will attract IHT unless you live for 7 years afterwards. I think that might be what some relatives did with their father's house as he has recently died and they have not had to apply for Probate. One of them worked ina care home for some years so probably knew what it was possible to get away with. I think it might depend on how the LA works whether you would be deemed to have given it away to avoid care home fees.

Witzend, your experience is not unusual. My friend's mother has just died. She was 90 when her Alzheimers meant she needed to go into care. She has died at the age of 96. I had an aunt who was also in a care home for six years and died at 96.

Care her stays are getting longer. I think the average is now nearer 3 years.

Nannarose, re length of care home stays, since my mother was already 89 and had pretty bad Alzheimer's when she finally went into her care home, we tended to assume that she wouldn't last more than 2 or 3 years, if that.
She was there for very nearly 8 years, until she died shortly after her 97th birthday.
I know this is unusual, but none of us ever expected it. She came from a large and long lived family, but even so, none of them had made it past 89.

Humpty Dumpty, the difference between a hotel and a care home is thar a hotel's nightly charge usually only includes breakfast, and sometimes not even that.
Whereas a care home will typically provide all meals and drinks, all laundry (often a lot), and help if needed with washing, dressing, toileting (as they like to call it) and maybe eating and drinking, too.
The clue is in the name - a care home, where residents need care, not just bed and breakfast.

Care home costs do often seem excessive at first sight, but when you work it out per day, and then compare what you get with B&B in a reasonable hotel in the same area, it may not seem quite such a ripoff.

whitewave re home care costs. As your mum has less than £23,250 savings, she should be eligible for means tested help towards home care costs. My mother has home care x 4 daily, and is in a similar situation, awaiting financial assessment. Of course it's a totally different situation if you go into a home where value of house is taken into consideration.

I totally agree with Monica. If you children want to inherit then they need to look after you if and when you need care - maybe one of them, or a grandchild, will do that when the time comes, and if so it is only fair that they get some financial benefit, either in terms if a larger share of your assets, or as a regular payment while they care for you, but you need to get it in writing.

My mother had to look after my gran in spite of us being the poor relatives and having no spare room or bathroom, so that us three sisters shared a room ( and me and younger sister also shared a bed) while mum’s older brother and sister had bathrooms and empty bedrooms because their children were older and had left home. Their argument was that grandma was leaving mum the house, but when she died, we found that grandma had not left it to mum at all but shared it equally between her offspring!

Living at home incurs the cost of utilities, phone, TV licence, council tax, transport, food etc etc etc which would have to be paid. Deducting these costs from weekly care home costs gives a more accurate picture of what additional funding a person would have to pay anyway.

Full board at a half decent hotel will give very little change from £100 a day (say £600 a week). Then add the cost of personal care, laundry, specialised equipment, and the cost will probably exceed the cost of a good care home.

no idea ,have never seen them ,suppose we need to contact the lawyer who holds them and the will

So whose name is on the deeds right now?

MIL has been in the house since OH's GF died ,it was too big for her mother to cope with so she "gave " it to MIL and her family to live in for life with the proviso it would go to OH when she died .It was all done legally.Never thought about it before as MIL is well and healthy but she was concerned her mothers wishes wouldn't be carried out if she needed long term care and they had to take the house.It was built by her father in the 1930's so its important to her that it stays in the family.We have no need of it so thats not the issue

Paddyann I think that when someone dies with a debt the debt has to be paid first before anybody can inherit anything. If the local authority puts a charge on the house to pay for care costs then the house will be sold regardless of what is in the will if there are no other assets to cover the debt.

Paddyann.....You don’t say why your MiL was allowed a lifetime use of the family home, is she still alive and still living there?.

Oops. That posted before I added my tuppence worth. I was just going to say that for the life of me I can't understand why the shared lives schemes don't seem to have taken off.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/Pages/shared-lives.aspx

.. oh and just to add this was just a standard care home that didn't offer specialised nursing care

At the 'young' age of 66, it occurs to me that, as long as I don't need nursing care, I would rather pay to stay in a hotel rather than a care home - and at £850 a week for a care home, it would be cheaper!

Unfortunately these days most people who enter care homes would not be capable of living by themselves in a hotel.

My mother did not go into a care home until she was unable to cope with 5 visits a day at home (3 from carers and 2 from family) and even with family taking care of shopping, meal prep, cleaning and laundry etc.

Paddy an, surely a person who is given the right to live in a house cannot actually sell it so it it is not part of her assets and cannot be sold to pay for care. I would get legal advice.

not meMonica my husbands granny left her house with this in her will ,can it be taken off his mother for care in these circumstances as she is allowed lifetime use of it?Or must the original will be adhered to.It was written 60 odd years ago.

I totally agree with MOnica regarding selfish people who want the taxpayer to pay for their care so that they can leave a larger inheritance to their children.

My two brothers, their wives, my husband and I looked after our mum financially and and physically in her last year's. She had a small house and just a little money plus her basic state pension. She did not qualify for any benefits and feared spending her savings ' in case they ran out' !

When she died we all inherited an equal share of her estate which, because of the value of her house, was a considerable amount. If your children want to inherit your estate they need to care for you in old age.