Have you bought a house which the owner currently has in Trust?

Well a lot of them are working from home. My son is a partner in a big City law firm and he goes in two days a week now but it doesn’t mean that anything is slowed up, everyone has phones and computers and cutting out the commute means more hours when people are accessible and (certainly in my son’s case) working.

As to whether all professionals are slow - well, as ever, you have to pick someone who’s quick and proactive. I hope you chose a solicitor through a trusted recommendation and didn’t go for the cheapest quote, or someone recommended by the estate agent, as that really is asking for trouble. You get what you pay for and solicitors who get work in by giving low quotes rely on getting large quantities of instructions and using unqualified people to do a lot of the work.

You can find out more about the ownership of the property for yourself by doing a Land Registry search. Make sure you use the .gov website not one which charges you a lot more for the same results. You can download a copy of the ‘title register’ for £3 and that will show the ownership. A further £3 gets you a plan confirming the extent of the property, though it’s possible that the property you’re buying is part of a larger title, for instance a farm. It could be owned by anything from a small family trust to a corporate set-up. This will give you a bit of a handle on things but it won’t reveal the actual terms of the trust or the identity of everyone who needs to be consulted. Hopefully, as the property is on the market, they have all agreed to sell. If I can help to explain anything on your LR search results do feel free to pm me. But make sure you’ve got a good solicitor on the job especially if, as I understand, you need to get things done quickly.

My question wasn't really about avoiding care home fees or what a Trust actually is for. I just wanted to know how long a Trust might take to sort out when a house is being sold. I think the estate agent and possibly the vendor's solicitor might be prevaricating to stall the sale. But we need to know. Of course our solicitor needs to get to the bottom of it. Is it me.... or are even professional people a bit slow off the mark these days? They always seem to be "working from home" or some other excuse.

Posted before I finished.

No-one wants to pay care home fees but some of us will have to. We cannot expect others to fund us if we have savings or property - but the cost per week is very high in some cases. Is it out of proportion to the care offered?

Aveline

We'd all like to avoid care costs but then who would actually pay them? By evading these you're making others pay. Take some responsibility.

I agree.

No-one wants to have to pay them and I do think that some owners or the private equity firms which own them should be subject to more scrutiny. They're not going to be in the business for love or charity but in contrast the staff are not well-paid.

UKcareguide.co.uk 01.01.2022

It is possible to put your house into a Trust and assign your property to someone else, such as your children. However, there have to be other reasons as to why you put your property into a trust and not just because you don’t want to pay your care fees.

You cannot deliberately look to avoid care fees by gifting your property or putting a house in trust to avoid care home fees. This is known as deprivation of assets.

If you do this, your local authority will come after you, and possibly the person that was given the transfer of assets to reclaim what is owed.

LOUISA1523

My mums house is in a family trust....she did it so her house couldn't be sold for care needs....it actually makes it easier when she's gone ( not for a long time I hope ?) .... as there will be no probate

That's not quite true as my father's house was in trust but we still had to get probate to sort out affairs after his death and the estate was not large

What would I know as a former solicitor? The purpose behind the trust is clear and you’ve admitted it.

Aveline

We'd all like to avoid care costs but then who would actually pay them? By evading these you're making others pay. Take some responsibility.

Moral questions aside, what is often not considered is that if you self fund care costs, you can choose the time and place.

If the local authority is expected to pay, social workers who have to sanction a placement, will very often (understandably, because of the cost) put it off until there is literally no other choice.
Particularly when dementia is involved, this may well mean that family doing their best to care, will by then be on their knees with stress and exhaustion.
And the choice of care home will be usually be very limited.

Germanshepherdsmum

No, it would be considered to be ‘deliberate deprivation of assets’ for care purposes and if you continue to live in the property without paying the full market rent the property is still part of your estate for IHT purposes.

Don't think you have a very good understanding of deprivation of assets?..... this trust was done many many years ago ....and even now at 85 my mum has no health issues therefore no known care needs

Germanshepherdsmum

Don’t agree with that sort of arrangement Louisa. The savings may not amount to much. Should I as a taxpayer whose parents died long ago without needing care, and who would rather die than receive care, pay for your relative’s care so you can inherit their home? I hope you don’t succeed in your attempt to get the taxpayer to pay for your relative’s care when she can afford to do so.

Its all within the law so won't be a case of 'suceeding' ?

Thank you all. I think I realise what a Trust is now. Just worried about how long it might take to sort out. (We are moving out of our current home at the end of February.) I'm guessing though that we won't get to know the details so may not be able to make an informed decision.

if you continue to live in the property without paying the full market rent the property is still part of your estate for IHT purposes.

I think that's what might be causing some of the delays in my friend's conveyancing. She mentioned something about how buying a new property would mean that the trust fund would have to be rewritten, due to new laws. I totally disagree with anything that would enable any one to shirk their financial responsibilities and so hope that it proves to be unviable to set up such trusts.

No, it would be considered to be ‘deliberate deprivation of assets’ for care purposes and if you continue to live in the property without paying the full market rent the property is still part of your estate for IHT purposes.

I thought it wasn’t a simple thing nowadays putting your property in trust, hoping to avoid future care bills?

Don’t agree with that sort of arrangement Louisa. The savings may not amount to much. Should I as a taxpayer whose parents died long ago without needing care, and who would rather die than receive care, pay for your relative’s care so you can inherit their home? I hope you don’t succeed in your attempt to get the taxpayer to pay for your relative’s care when she can afford to do so.

Aveline

We'd all like to avoid care costs but then who would actually pay them? By evading these you're making others pay. Take some responsibility.

All her savings will go on care needs ( if needed) ....which will be considerably more than most people ever contribute.... so she will be doing her bit....it will only be the house proceeds that come to us in their entirety.....she's taking quite enough responsibility thank you .... you do you....we will do us

I know that I typed Aveline! Must have been my fury that gave me fat fingers.

I agree Aveline. It's rather like tax evasion. When I hear stories like these I hope they were unsuccessful, as if someone has the means to pay for their care why should they contrive to ensure that the taxpayer pays? Putting your house in a trust and continuing to live in it otherwise than on payment of a market rent should mean that you pay for your care and also that the house is brought into account for IHT.

Exactly so Adeline.

Well put, Aveline.

We'd all like to avoid care costs but then who would actually pay them? By evading these you're making others pay. Take some responsibility.

Chewbacca

My friend and her husband put their family home in trust to their 2 adult children, so that they could avoid having to pay for future care costs When the husband died, early last year, my friend decided to sell the house and down size to something smaller and cheaper to run. The conveyancing has been very convoluted because 3 parties have to be involved in every stage of the sale and purchase of a new property, which will also be in trust to the 2 adult children. The sale of the family home took so long, that the proposed purchaser got fed up and withdrew from buying it. So she lost the house she'd wanted to buy as well. 7 months down the line and she's still trying to sell and buy.

There wasn't a problem selling my mums when she's downsized....my and my DD just had to sign documents alongside my Mum ..... it took 4 months from offer to completion....pretty normal. I don't blame your friend wanting to avoid care costs ..... so did my Mum

My friend and her husband put their family home in trust to their 2 adult children, so that they could avoid having to pay for future care costs When the husband died, early last year, my friend decided to sell the house and down size to something smaller and cheaper to run. The conveyancing has been very convoluted because 3 parties have to be involved in every stage of the sale and purchase of a new property, which will also be in trust to the 2 adult children. The sale of the family home took so long, that the proposed purchaser got fed up and withdrew from buying it. So she lost the house she'd wanted to buy as well. 7 months down the line and she's still trying to sell and buy.

PS I think it took so long because the niece also had to agree every piece of information that went between our Solicitors and also the new purchase by her Aunt, the paperwork had to be sent to her for approval before her Aunt (our seller) was able to sign anything.

The house we are in now was in Trust, the lady who lived in it had to get permission from her niece to sell and buy another.
We found the house in the September and we completed in the January of the following year.
This was over 20 years ago and I would like to think that things would have speeded up by now, but looking at various threads on GN, Solicitors seem to be as slow as ever.