Query re attendance allowance

Ex-dancer, go back to Age UK, they will understand the predicament you are in and help you deal with it.

I am also sure that DWP are quite used to getting phone calls from people like you, who are given AA and then worry about it.

What DWP will be looking for is not so much what help you need, if your need was high you would be having carers coming in, and as I said above, this benefit is to cover the grey areas, where you can manage without a carer but could be in danger from hurting yourself, or struggling to complete things on your own compared with someone who is fully fit.

As i said, going to the loo at night, may increase the danger of falls on the way there and back, your duvet may fall off the bed and you may have difficulty getting it back on, this could lead to you getting hypothermia, in cold weather.

If it takes you over an hour to get up and get dressed in the morning and you then need to sit down for an hour to recover, then you need help. The fact that you can get into and out of a bath, but it is difficult, what is the danger of you slipping and if you end up on you back in the bath, can you get out?

Would you like me to discuss this with you through PMs, because I am very happy to do so.

M0nica Mon 06-Jun-22 17:10:49

Such a useful post M0nica. It's a bit of a minefield - looking at yourself as someone else might do. I agree that what was written on the form is unlikely to have been wrong. It's difficult, sometimes, to see ourselves as others see us. We can all get stubbornly determined to believe we are "managing".

I admire your honesty ExDancer and hope you can clear it up with DWP.
Out of interest for anyone diagnosed with a terminal illness who needs personal care it may not be necessary to complete all the forms and you may be fast tracked for the higher allowance under the special rules.

ExDancer

Well!
Your answers made me ponder, and I've re read the letter over and over again, its the bit that assumes I need help for 'personal care' that bothers me. Because I don't need help with personal care, its practical care I need.
I rang DWP and she's suspended payment and will go through things and get in touch.
I honestly don't think i qualify
We'll see.

So glad you rang.

Thanks MOnica, for understanding and for your clear explanations.
Thanks also GSD for putting the legal side into perspective.
I'll put all this to the nice lady from DWP when she contacts me and try to explain exactly how much help I need, without exaggerating or putting on the 'brave little old lady' face.

Good posts monica.

Very judgemental posts, gsd.

This is difficult. I used to fill in these forms for young disabled adults and it was a question, not of lying, but of understanding the criteria and the decision process to make sure that the situation was absolutely clear - sometimes someone would say No to a question and, when I quizzed them a bit, it would become clear that the answer should be Yes.

But if you feel that some of the answers were simply not true then I think you should speak to them about it, as it is clearly making you feel uncomfortable.

However please first think it through in detail - you do not have to be actually receiving the help you feel you need, you just have to have that need. You say that you do not need help going to the loo at night ..... but is it difficult to get out of bed maybe? Help with bodily functions does not necessarily mean you need someone to wipe your bum, but can mean that getting your pants up and down is painful for some reason. Have a really good think about this before doing anything, or get back to Age UK and ask them to go through it with you so that you can fully understand the reason behind each answer. They understand how these things are interpreted by the decision makers and will know what is acceptable and comes within the criteria and what does not.

You have been very fortunate Isummer - in the last year of his life, my DH already diagnosed with terminal cancer was admitted to hospital several times and not once did I get any information about AA. I probably wouldn’t have bothered with it anyway having been turned down for Carer’s Allowance for my disabled daughter after 2 applications and an appeal many years ago. That process absolutely sickened me when I saw how many people seemed to get it because they knew how to answer the questions - don’t shoot me - but I have a friend who claims it for her son, who lives 40 miles away who she only sees once a fortnight - another story. My late MIL also got AA at the lowest level (all changed now) after a short stay in hospital. Someone there filled the forms in for her, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with her. Her family were disgusted with her because she could well afford any help had she needed it.

The difficulty growstuff is the definition of needing help. A person may not need someone to physically support them and guide them to the loo, but, getting up at night, when people are half asleep and dozy is a prime time for falls - and a lot of people do fall in those circumstances. Bed clothes can fall off the bed or get tangled and the person concerned may not have the strength to get them back on the bed properly.

This is the thing with AA, you need to think all around the problem. A visit to the loo starts when you feel the need and doesn't end until you are safely in bed and asleep again, and as I found, so often, with clients, they simply did not recognise their need because it had crept on them so slowly they hadn't realised.

So the fact that someone says they do not have a need, often means that there is actually a need but that they have not recognised it.

The amount of fraud associated with Attendance Allowance is infinitismal. Very few get it who do not qualify it. In over 10 years, I cannot remember a single case of fraud being discovered or someone getting it who wasn't entitled to it. I speak as someone who did this work for over 10 years and reviewing, mentally, not just my clients but clients at my branch of Age Concern.

Personally I would contact the correct department & tell them ... someone may need it more than you ... how many more people get the allowance when not entitled to it ... also how do you know someone will not contact them to say you don't need the help ... then fraud comes into it
... in the end your decision ... but ... I know what I would do

I'm not disagreeing with you MOnica, but the OP wrote "The lady at Ageuk has put me down as needing help going to the loo during the nights .. when I don't , and help with bodily functions, which I don't." Therefore, the information on the form is not correct.

PS. I'm not saying she doesn't need AA. I got my Mum to apply, but she was refused, even though she couldn't wash herself properly. Unfortunately, my Mum didn't want to admit that she hadn't washed for weeks and actually smelled. She used to wet herself too because she found it difficult to get to the toilet in time, but tried to cover that up by sitting on bin liners.

No, I disagree, GSM. Many of the people I saw were really struggling, not yet needing a carer, but struggling, never the less. The extra money is there to spend on anything that will make life easier or better. Someone alone and housebound, might use it to get to a social club once a week for the company that is vital for their metal health.

Other clients used to buy specialist beds and chairs that made getting out of bed or sitting in a chair, not just more comfortable, but safer because it reduces falls.

In any situation there is always a grey area. AA addresses the grey area between being able to being able to lead your life without needing any help at all because you, may be a bit creaky, but can do everything you always did, albeit abit more slowly and reaching the stage where you need carers in because you cannot get out of bed unaided, or walk down the stairs unaided, or are in constant risk of falls.

Quite often that small injection of money that AA gives, keeps people independent and delays the time when they need carers or need to go into care. peoples disabilitiies and problems being so various, they know best what will make life safer and more bearable.

If you are on Pension Credit, when you get AA you can get an extra £69.40 pension a week added to your pension Credit. Someone on Pension Credit who gets AA could be £122 - £162 a week better off. A very real help in these inflationary times. You can keep warm and have a decent diet.

I’m so very sorry. Glad your husband has received some financial assistance.
Best wishes, look after yourself.
?

My husband was given a terminal diagnosis 7 weeks ago and the palliative care nurse came to see us. At the moment he is relatively well and doesn’t need any extra care but on our behalf they contacted Citizens Advise Bureau. After a telephone conversation with them, they contacted the Clinical Nurse Specialist at our hospital who sent documentation that resulted in the DWP paying us £92 Attendance Allowance backdated to the date of his terminal diagnosis and us being given a blue badge. I wasn’t sure about this but CAB said anyone with a terminal diagnosis is entitled to this and its not means tested. We didn’t actually sign anything.

I have my difficulties due to arthritis and asthma and get around them. It’s a way of life. Surely if people are coping satisfactorily and safely without outside help they shouldn’t be entitled to benefits?

Excellent post, MOnica.
My mum was very reluctant to dwell on her difficulties. She talked about how she coped, not struggled. It took a skilled support worker to complete her form, teasing out the truth.

OP, did you keep a copy? If not, I repeat what I said earlier, and suggest you speak to AgeUK, who may well have a copy, so you can see what was written and why,

Having been an Age Concern (now Age UK) benefits advisor for over 10 years, I think it is highly unlikely that any of their advisors would put anything down on the form that was not true.

What does happen is that many people do not realise quite how disabled they are because their disabilities come on slowly and are expressed in terms of what they cannot do. 'needing help in the garden', need help in the house'.

But if you need help in the garden, it will be because your arthritis means you cannot bend anymore, or you are afraid of falling and not being able to get up again and there are probably other things you do not do that you do not notice, or minor changes you have made in your life, because of stiffness The same with cleaning.

One of the first questions the AA form asks about is getting in and out of bed. When a client told me they had no problem, I would respond,'So you leap out of bed like 20 year old.'. The client woukd say, Oh no, First I have to sit up in bed and wait a bit, then I manage to get my legs over the side of the bed and rest, then I lean on the bedside table to help to stand ..........'

Now someone in that situation does not need a carer coming into the house, But clearly struggles to get out (and into) bed and in an ideal world could do with an Aladdin's Lamp they can rub, and a carer pops out to lend them an arm for a minute or two before popping back into the lamp again. They might be glad of some help getting down stairs (remember a stair lift is an answer to a problem, it doesn't mean you do not have problem.), just for a minute or two.

Anything you do or do not do now that you did or did not do when you were younger and fitter, is likely to be because you cannot do it anymore because of the problem of an aging body.

Time after time I had clients like Ex-dancer who were simply unaware of the problems they had, because they came on slowly and they made adjustments.

So ex-dancer, go to Age UK and ask them to explain their responses on the form and before you go ask yourself these questions. What physical problems are the cause of you needing help in the garden and in what way do those physical problems affect everything else you do, from getting out of bed to moving round the house, to the actions you take to protect yourself from falling.

I reiterate, I think it is highly unlikely that what is written on the form was wrong, more that, you had not realised how much the problems you have doing the gardening/shopping were limiting and restricting the rest of our life, you had just adjusted yourself to them gradually without thinking about them.

Well!
Your answers made me ponder, and I've re read the letter over and over again, its the bit that assumes I need help for 'personal care' that bothers me. Because I don't need help with personal care, its practical care I need.
I rang DWP and she's suspended payment and will go through things and get in touch.
I honestly don't think i qualify
We'll see.

???

The lady from age UK was trying to be helpful, but please let DWP know if you do not need it for personal care.
Please do this ASAP as what was put on the form was not correct. If you do not do this, you could be committing benefit fraud, as you signed something you are now saying is not true.
I respect you are being honest,so make that call.

Apparently, Spore, the OP is not entitled to anything. She absolutely must not leave this unaddressed or she will be in trouble. As it is, she was negligent but had no intention to obtain a benefit by making a false statement. She won’t get into trouble if she acts promptly to correct the error. I’m surprised that some posters suggest keeping the money or giving some to Age UK. Ever heard of aiding and abetting?

I agree with Germanshepherdsmum. If you truly believe those answers are incorrect, you will live with the worry of it and that cannot be good for you. If you ring quickly it can be sorted out.

If you feel you should get the standard rate and not the enhanced rate, set up a standing order and give the excess amount to Age UK.
In future if you do need help at night, you can always cancel the standing order.
Be careful what you tell DWP about an error in your application and not needing help at night, they might see it as a change in your circumstances and you might up end with nothing.

If the Application form was completed inaccurately, as you say, Exdancer then I am inclined to agree with GSM.