Brother living in inherited house, banning sibling from visiting, probate

You are always generous sharing advice GSM. Even if there are sometimes those who think they know better 🤔

It’s my pleasure if I can assist. When I qualified I was told I must always use my qualification to help people when I could and I’ve never forgotten those words. I can’t act for people now I’m retired but I can offer a few thoughts and point them in the right direction!

Germanshepherdsmum

The executors have a duty to get the best price they reasonably can for the house so don’t worry about that. If your father wished your brother to live in the house rent free for as long as he wanted he would have had that written into the will. However he would have known that your brother would have lived there for his whole life given your description, which would mean the house not being sold until he died or went into a home, so that would have made no sense especially as your brother is the youngest - you would never have seen a penny! Quite clearly your father intended you all to benefit equally and that can only happen through the sale of the house or through your brother raising enough with a mortgage to pay you and your sisters off. That’s impossible if he refuses to work. Equity release might be a possibility for him to consider but I don’t know that as much as £200k is possible or that someone as young as your brother would be considered in view of the likelihood of the debt with rolled up interest rapidly reaching the point where a sale would be forced, leaving your brother with little or nothing.. Generally people seeking equity release are far older and requiring much smaller sums. It may be worth investigating as an alternative to the unpleasantness and expense that litigation will entail and would demonstrate good will on the part of you and your sister but I don’t hold out great hope of it being a runner.
Your brother needs to understand that if action is taken to remove him as an executor and also to gain possession of the house, those expenses will fall to be reimbursed out of the estate so you will all be worse off. That won’t be the case with his ill-conceived action against your sister.

Thank you sooo much for giving time and invaluable advice to this!

The executors have a duty to get the best price they reasonably can for the house so don’t worry about that. If your father wished your brother to live in the house rent free for as long as he wanted he would have had that written into the will. However he would have known that your brother would have lived there for his whole life given your description, which would mean the house not being sold until he died or went into a home, so that would have made no sense especially as your brother is the youngest - you would never have seen a penny! Quite clearly your father intended you all to benefit equally and that can only happen through the sale of the house or through your brother raising enough with a mortgage to pay you and your sisters off. That’s impossible if he refuses to work. Equity release might be a possibility for him to consider but I don’t know that as much as £200k is possible or that someone as young as your brother would be considered in view of the likelihood of the debt with rolled up interest rapidly reaching the point where a sale would be forced, leaving your brother with little or nothing.. Generally people seeking equity release are far older and requiring much smaller sums. It may be worth investigating as an alternative to the unpleasantness and expense that litigation will entail and would demonstrate good will on the part of you and your sister but I don’t hold out great hope of it being a runner.
Your brother needs to understand that if action is taken to remove him as an executor and also to gain possession of the house, those expenses will fall to be reimbursed out of the estate so you will all be worse off. That won’t be the case with his ill-conceived action against your sister.

Ziplok

I honestly can’t see anywhere in this thread anything nasty being said. I do see sound advice being offered, particularly from Germanshepherdsmum who has the background knowledge being a former solicitor (most of us posting are not ex solicitors, I assume).

me neither, the advice has already been amazing, especially Germanshepherdsmum. Thanks! xxx

I honestly can’t see anywhere in this thread anything nasty being said. I do see sound advice being offered, particularly from Germanshepherdsmum who has the background knowledge being a former solicitor (most of us posting are not ex solicitors, I assume).

DamaskRose

Germanshepherdsmum

I would advise seeing an independent solicitor if one has already been appointed to obtain probate - which isn’t clear. As the brother is one of the executors a solicitor already appointed to deal with the estate would have a conflict.

Definitely take this advice. Perhaps he may think/act differently if he knows you have done this.

Thank you!....yes, my sister has begrudgingly appointed a solicitor to take her case as my brother is handing his solicitor, very slowly, scraps of paper and cheque stubs from my father, with my sister´s name and random amounts....even the letter from the solicitor to my sister said ´´what seems to be...´´ when describing the loan paper. I seriously think he´s actually taking my brother for a ride and rubs his hands when he sees him coming!

Everything is taking time as my sister has a family and full time job.
I think this is the thing too.....my brother has no concept of the real world....paying rent/ mortgage, working, debt, etc

He obviously has all the time in the world to sit behind closed curtains (yes!) and search through Dad´s PRIVATE affairs looking for debts! Why not start by looking for his own rent book and direct debits for bills?!

This is not vindictive....you know, if he suddenly said, sorry guys, grief got the better of me, I panicked, I played things wrong...can I have 2 more years in the house, get my self together, legal case dropped....no problem!

I heard that if it does go to court, just between my sister and brother, thankfully I´m not involved, YET....I´ve read that the note of paper would probably be completely seen as holding no legal weight, and the house could be sold at minimum market value...in which case, he has really smacked himself in the face!

Quite right Farzanah. I might be a female person in my 70s but I don’t want to be called an elderly woman. GN is, I believe, for people over 50 - not for elderly women though ages range from well under 50 to almost 100.

Germanshepherdsmum

I would advise seeing an independent solicitor if one has already been appointed to obtain probate - which isn’t clear. As the brother is one of the executors a solicitor already appointed to deal with the estate would have a conflict.

Definitely take this advice. Perhaps he may think/act differently if he knows you have done this.

Not everyone who posts on this forum is necessarily elderly or of the female gender.

There is no ‘nasty thread’ here. There is however practical advice and support. Believe me, this is a matter for a good solicitor, not the CAB. I’m a retired solicitor and know what I’m talking about.

Once again another nasty thread weaving through a request for help. Positive advice is always welcome. I had a nasty remark on my messages removed. Gransnet obviously agreed with me. You wouldn't think this behaviour would happen on a forum for elderly women.

Just take it to the solicitor you dealt with or Citizens Advice, if you can get through. There is help out there if you look hard enough. Sounds daft but are you with the RAC because they offer a free phone conversation for any legal advice if you are a member. Never knew that till recently. 😊

Germanshepherdsmum

He may well now be living off your father’s money. As an executor he has a duty to keep the house in repair and pay the usual bills at the expense of the estate, but that doesn’t extend to food and clothing and other personal expenses. If he is buying food etc for himself out of your father’s money he is stealing from the estate.
He is clearly not fulfilling the duties of an executor, which are to obtain probate and to gather in the assets of the deceased and distribute them in accordance with the will. As I have already said, you and particularly your sister, his co-executor, who he is preventing from fulfilling her duties, should see a solicitor with a view to having him removed as an executor. Yes, it will be unpleasant - but he is the one who has created this situation and looks set to carry it on for as long as you allow. Time for him to grow up - he will have a substantial amount of money to fall back on.

thanks so much for your advice

He may well now be living off your father’s money. As an executor he has a duty to keep the house in repair and pay the usual bills at the expense of the estate, but that doesn’t extend to food and clothing and other personal expenses. If he is buying food etc for himself out of your father’s money he is stealing from the estate.
He is clearly not fulfilling the duties of an executor, which are to obtain probate and to gather in the assets of the deceased and distribute them in accordance with the will. As I have already said, you and particularly your sister, his co-executor, who he is preventing from fulfilling her duties, should see a solicitor with a view to having him removed as an executor. Yes, it will be unpleasant - but he is the one who has created this situation and looks set to carry it on for as long as you allow. Time for him to grow up - he will have a substantial amount of money to fall back on.

Dickens

So basically unless brother moves out of his own free will - you've had it! And from what you've told us - it doesn't look like he has any intention of doing that, so giving him time to sort himself out will achieve nothing.

Germanshepherdsmum is right - you need to see a solicitor to sort this out. The sooner, the better.

How on earth does he support himself if he doesn't work?

Thanks so much for your message.....basically, unless he won the lottery, or is a secret trader on the financial markets...we think he lives on past generations and their wills! I guess if you put it in an ISA, and don´t give much out in terms of rent and bills....you could keep going!

This makes me embarrassed for him....my grandparents, etc worked their whole lives, through disability , so he doesn´t have to.

Yes, it could be that he has severe anxiety, depression, or is mentally or socially retarded ( in the true definition of the word....not as an insult)....but if that is the case, and Dad is letting him stay in the house, then at least either write it in the will, or let us know there is special circumstances regarding his ´special treatment´.
I mean, surely mental health is hopefully not a taboo subject anymore....

Gunrun Just read the 2nd page and think you're right regarding your brother lying about his solicitor. Can you not contact this solicitor and ask what's going on and if the probate officer is doing a bad job, sack him and get another [or can you not do that] The solicitor's letter to your sister may have been the only thing he/she did!

I read this thread with interested as trying to purchase a property 2yrs year back, being sold by 2 sisters & a brother. I waited 7months for them to complete, during this time the brother moved in. It was taking so long I lost my buyer & just as the final paper went into the solicitors that we had been holding our breath for, they pulled the house off the market. I suspect a similar situation as yours Gudrun.

I suspect the handwritten note is your brothers work, if your dad left a will, why would these stipulations about your brother staying in the property rent free! not be included. He could have traced the signature.

I agree you definitely need a solicitor and as this would take probably a good year, your brother would have all that time to sort himself out. Also, you should be allowed into your family home to choose a few mementos & pictures etc.

Good luck.

Germanshepherdsmum

I understand your feelings but you have already given him space and time and it hasn’t worked. Personally I would be looking at getting him removed as an executor because he is effectively preventing the administration of your father’s estate and who knows what he may be concealing or even appropriating whilst he has sole access to your father’s papers and other belongings.

Thank you....I kind of think we´re tiptoeing round him. I really care about him, and we do have a tendency to think of him as our younger , childlike brother ( probably because when an adult lives at home still, I guess I tend to wrongly maybe, see them as immature)...but then when this cruel, cold side comes out( Legal case against sister/ blocking probate/ no entry to Dad´s house, etc) I´m changing my tune!

He´s already blatantly lied to his solicitor as the letter to my sister states that we are harrassing him to sell the house as soon as possible...not true! And also that my sister has to swear she won´t remove anything from Dad´s house, and that his solicitor has him writing a full inventory of the house contents, including photos.

Now, this is almost funny. I kind of think either his solicitor is a cowboy, or my brother is lying.
We have not been allowed in the house since the funeral last July, and were very angrily refused spare keys. So unless my sister is a burglar, how is she going to take content from the house, even if she wanted to! ...which we don´t. I want one of Dad´s shirts and a couple of photos at most. Believe me , Dad´s house was not full of Picasso originals!!!

So it´s hard to take things seriously, or behave in a emphatic manner when lies are being freely thrown around.

I have talked about removing him as executor.
( I personally would never put that duty on a family member, especially 2 brothers!)
My friend warned me that this would happen, I said no....our family is quite sweet, but he said, believe me, money changes people! Sadly right!

Surely the duty of an executor is to keep in regular contact, communicating what is happening with the probate, estate, etc and he is surely not performing in this role at all.

I understand your feelings but you have already given him space and time and it hasn’t worked. Personally I would be looking at getting him removed as an executor because he is effectively preventing the administration of your father’s estate and who knows what he may be concealing or even appropriating whilst he has sole access to your father’s papers and other belongings.

aggie

From another perspective, maybe the sitting tenant /brother fears exactly what most people are suggesting .
His Father promised him a home for life , now the others are circling his home and threatening his security
You have painted him into a corner instead of helping him grieve and gently suggesting a move
No I don’t really think this , but if you could get back to talking to your brother maybe a solution could be found

Thank you for another , gentler perpesctive.....the thing is , we´re not vultures, from the reading of the will, my sister and I immediately agreed in front of my brother, to honour Dad´s wishes regarding him having rent free time in the house...the annoying thing is dad´s lack of clarity! I guess he never dreamt how unpleasant things would swiftly turn between his children after his death!....

My sister would try to plan a visit, with due notice, not just rudely turning up....she would prepare tupperware boxes of freshly cooked meals for my brother. My brother would ignore the messages, and even though his car was outside, would not answer the door.
Another attempt before Christmas and we were told he was éxtremely busy´ and we couldn´t visit either him or our Dad´s house.
We asked if he could leave a key with a neighbour ( we were refused spare keys straight after Dad´s funeral!!)
This request was ignored!
I live more than 10hrs away, and my sister lives 2 hrs away in another city.

As one of the executors, my sister appointed a solicitor after Dad died.....who was swiftly cancelled after we left!
I have been refused a visit, I recently asked if he wanted a day out in a nearby town....just me and him, shopping, lunch, I promised no talk of anything legal, or even about Dad, kind of.....no answer. I sent a card and Easter chocolates...no answer.
Believe me, of course maybe my sister and I have probably played parts wrong since my Dad´s death...sorry! I´m also trying to grieve, and hold down a full time job, and look after my own family.
We are so not on his back about moving out....
But I guess when 1 week after Dad´s funeral, my sister is very clearly told she cannot visit him or the house, and 1 week before Christmas, my sister is served with a letter from his solicitor saying my brother ( as the 2nd executor) is blocking probate.....you can maybe understand why our good nature and willingness to let him call the shots are dwindling....

Another point....is he even allowed to search through Dad´s financial papers, cheque stubs from 20years ago??!! can he do this alone? Surely my sister as the other executor should be present. I mean, what´s to stop him concealing things...?
He´s also denying my sister entry to the house, and obviously to Dad´s papers.....surely this in itself is illegal.
And I´m not being funny, but can´t one even have privacy when one is dead??!

We are far from circling his home....we can´t get anywhere near, and for the last few months, I took myself out of the Whatsapp family group....for my own sake too. I´m obviously having a hard time, grieving from a distance, so this conflict between my siblings was very unhealthy for me too.

I also hope that giving him space and time, to let him play things out as he thinks fit, will maybe work.

We both really care about him and love him....we want nothing more than for him to be happy and healthy, preferably live his dreams, and have friends, interests, etc....

From another perspective, maybe the sitting tenant /brother fears exactly what most people are suggesting .
His Father promised him a home for life , now the others are circling his home and threatening his security
You have painted him into a corner instead of helping him grieve and gently suggesting a move
No I don’t really think this , but if you could get back to talking to your brother maybe a solution could be found

I fear the hourly rate of a good solicitor to sort this mess out will be much higher than £300 Katie. You can easily triple that figure. But better to instruct a more expensive solicitor who can deal with the matter effectively and with the required degree of aggression and put the fear of God into the brother and his lawyer than a cheaper one off the high street who doesn’t really know what to do, shuffles the papers and takes far longer. Going to a good firm will be money well spent, believe me. Good litigators are, professionally, nasty people. That’s what’s needed.

Similar thing happened to my next door neighbours home.
She had Dementia when into a care home and passed away. Prior to that her dead beat son moved in, supposedly to her her.
While she was in the Care home he started selling her furniture, plus other pieces of value, his sisters where furious.

After she passed he wouldn't leave, the house his sisters got a Solicitor involved, he got booted out, from what they said it was streight forwarded .
House was a wreck but they managed to sell it, after getting a cleaning team in, but otherwise left it as it was.
A young family moved in and sorted it out.
Good luck don't let this beat you.

Does anyone have any ideas how to progress? Thanks!!!!

Very carefully, your brother thinks he has a claim to the house for life, he also sounds vindictive, so will take a lot of convincing to move, probably a court decision to evict him.

Solicitors fees, wether they are justified or not, they start at £200 an hour, £300 is typical any contested court case is going to cost a lot. It’s not fair that you can’t have the inheritance now, at least the value of the house will increase over the years.

thank you for writing.....it´s only ours once Dad´s house is sold. I mean we can wait obviously for the legacy, but the unpleasantness and the unexpected legal case against my sister...and not being able to visit Dad´s home...to grieve, to maybe take some photos, maybe a shirt or vase of his for memories