Probate/ letters of administration ( no will)

Absolutely right MOnica. As the occupier of the house the brother is liable for council tax and utility bills, not the estate. If he doesn’t pay them, honeydo, don’t pay them yourself. They are solely his responsibility as long as he lives in the house. Don’t let him try to convince you that the estate has to pay them. It doesn’t.

Thank you Sasta for your kind comments. I too hope that honeydo lets us know how she gets on. I hope she now has the courage to put this in the hands of a solicitor, who will take the burden off her shoulders. It’s a great shame that her brother is forcing the pace with such unseemly haste but we know she isn’t acting so quickly by choice.

What an excellent and thorough response Germanshepherdsmum. Now honeydo has the actual facts, let’s hope she takes your advice. Do let us know how you get on honeydo. Good luck.

By the way the utility bills, Council tax - he will get a 25% reduction because he is living there on his own., are your brother's responsibility, and his alone. He is living in the house and any energy consumed is entirely within his control and for his use.

The solicitor’s fees will be paid out of the estate in due course. Please take charge by instructing a solicitor yourself. They will then sort matters out. Don’t allow your brother to do things quickly and cheaply and cut corners. The house may well have to be sold in order to divide the estate equally after expenses. So be it. Your brother will have a very nice sum and must use it to find alternative accommodation. Your Mum intended both her children to share equally what she had. Honour her memory by making that happen. Don’t let your brother cheat you out of what is rightfully yours.

OP, please take note of what GSM says; she knows whereof she speaks.
you do not need to pay for the funeral.
have the bill sent to your mother's bank and it will be paid out of her account.
did you register the death. there used to be a system called, tell us once, whereby you could inform all official bodies together.
not sure if it still applies.
what does your husband think about all this ?

I also told him I would pay the expenses of a solicitor because I know the main reason he is DIY- ing is because he hasn't got the money to pay out like that.

But I haven't got a solicitor because I now have to find one.

Thank you for your response. I have told my brother that he is incorrect about the IHT threshold and asked him if he will hold whilst I find a solicitor at least to file the papers.

I also told him I did not want to be in such a hurry to file the papers. I want to bury mum first and pay the funeral bill. I do not see the need to do anything until that is over. I understand he needs to close the utilities accounts because those come out of my mums bank account monthly and now have to be paid by him or me. I also recognise he needs to inform mums pensions and to freeze the accounts. I dont have a problem with that.

I know he wants to do it all quickly. Any IHT would have to be paid by me anyway as he doesnt have savings and mums money may not cover the bill if it is £30K. But if we have the additional £175K , her estate will be under that threshold.

I dont think he is being deliberately fraudulent. He isnt claiming she had less money than she had. If anything he has overestimated everything. He is just trying to save money and do things quickly.

I am not sure how much his loan was. I have had the bank statements today but I havent looked closely. I know mum owed me for a chair she wanted and I bought and paid for because she was housebound. She passed away before paying me for it as the bill was not due ( I paid by credit card). But I dont need that money back. I am happy for that to be a gift from me.

It seems it is all so easily done online these days and I suspect that makes my brother a little bit get on and do it. I had thought he would need my signature for anything and I would slow him that way. But online doesnt need a signature clearly.

Thank you for the advice.

I’m a retired solicitor. I’ve been away and have just read this.

honeydo, your brother is totally incorrect in saying that the £175k allowance doesn’t apply. It does where, as here, an intestate estate is inherited by direct descendants such as you and your brother. This means that the threshold for payment of IHT is, in this case, £500k.

It’s vital that the value of the estate is correctly stated when an application for letters of administration is made. This includes not only what your mother owned when she died but also what she was owed (you said that money had been loaned to your brother) but gifts made within the last seven years; that includes the money spent on your brother’s brand new car and any other gifts she made. You need to see what money has been taken from her bank accounts over the last seven years in order to identify gifts - probably, from what you say, to your brother. IHT liability gradually decreases over the seven year period but such gifts cannot be ignored.

As regards the house, this has to be properly valued. Being of non-traditional construction will, as you know, affect its value.

Your brother is taking a very cavalier attitude towards valuing the estate, doubtless thinking that all tax and funeral and other expenses will be covered by your mother’s savings and as you expect nothing more than whatever cash is left you will be the loser and he will be sitting pretty in the house. From a legal perspective he could not be more wrong.

The estate, after payment of the expenses of the funeral, obtaining letters of administration and all ancillary expenses such as obtaining death certificates, falls to be divided equally between you.

Your brother is about to make a false declaration as to the value of your mother’s estate. It matters not that he is offering payment of IHT which is not due. You are fully aware of the intention to make a false declaration and you are thereby aiding and abetting him. That is a criminal offence. You must, without delay, see a solicitor to ensure that the application for letters of administration is correctly, not fraudulently, made in both your names, IHT is dealt with correctly and the estate, after any tax and relevant expenses as I have explained, equally divided between you . Don’t allow your brother to defraud you of your inheritance, allow you to bear costs which he should share or allow you to be complicit in his illegal statements and thereby incur criminal liability.

I can’t overemphasise how important it is that your mother’s estate is correctly dealt with and that no incorrect statements are knowingly made. Don’t allow your brother to let you get caught up in what he is doing. He simply considers that he will have the house and you the savings, less all the expenses. Go to a solicitor immediately to ensure you receive what is due to you. I suggest you show this to your husband, whose support you need and who would justifiably be very angry if your brother were to try to deprive you of your inheritance and at the same time embroil you in a deliberately fraudulent application to the court.

Things have moved apace I am afraid. Mum isnt buried yet by the way. I had to pay out £66.00 for death certificates for various utilities and such to be given a death certificate to close accounts / stop pensions etc. I doubt I will get that back either.

There is still the funeral to pay. Since mums money is frozen I will have to pay that. My brother hasnt got any savings.

Meanwhile my brother is filing the papers himself. We cannot afford to wait so it needs to be done. He has valued the house at £300,000 ( because an estate agent will cost money we do not have). This may be right, I do not know. He took an average value from all the houses sold in our area in the last year.

But the house is a woolaway bungalow in need of renovation and modernisation ( non traditional construction) and so is hard to mortgage. The is usually reflected in the values. But he doesnt want HM Government causing grief for us so he would rather over value and not get asked questions.

My brother reckons we will owe the IHT around £30K . He has used the IHT calculator in the government site. He tells me we are not entitled to the extra £175000 nil tax band because mum did not leave a will.This only applies it seems if you left your home directly ( via a will) so we have not been left the house and he has ticked the box to say that. Therefore we have to pay on anything over £325 according to him that is around £30K ( apparently her total estate comes to about £400K) we have to find before we can get Letters of Administration.

I wish insgtead of telling people as is too often the case , how they can leave money to this relative and that and how they can leave to charity etc. some solicitor would just state the plain truth - if you leave a property to your children intestate, you will get a £325K nil tax band BUT IF YOU LEAVE A WILL you can get the £175K extra tax band.

If someone had told me that straight I would write a will too. But they dont.

Anyway, thanks to all for the help, but this is what it is. Mums savings will pay the IHT and the house is what it is and my brother will live there. No doubt I will have my name on the deeds as part owner.

Honeydo get a solicitor today. Don't wait . I have organised 3 funerals each time needed the death certificate and registration of death. so how can you brother organise the funeral without it.

As soon as a person dies their accounts are frozen. So if your mom was paying all the bills nothing is going to get paid as the bank account is frozen. Unless his name is on the deeds he has no legal right to be living in the house. And as far as the council are concerned he is not the legal owner.

I know it's hard but as soon as your mom died you needed to get a solicitor. You can claim the cost of the solicitor from your mom's estate once it's settled.

But you need to speak to a solicitor today. And tell your brother he has no legal right to dispose of anything out of the house that was your mom's.

Sorry for you loss honeydo. This is a sad situation, made worse by your apparent reluctance to stand up for your rights. I can understand why given the family dynamic you describe, but it can stop and now is the time. You too are worthy of consideration, it doesn’t have to be all about your bother any longer. It seems clear you have been browbeaten into thinking this is ok, but it’s simply not. I doubt very much that your brother was surprised at the savings your mum left because it sounds like he’s benefited from most of it already. I can’t understand how you can be told not to buy beautiful flowers for you beloved mum’s funeral, and worse, do as you are told in this regard. If you choose not to listen to the excellent advice from M0nica, Caravansera and others here, nothing will change for you. Please get help. You deserve better.

You need to see a Solicitor, quick.

honeydo, it's an emotional time but this isn't about how you feel obligations to your brother - or your need to follow your mother's (assumed) wishes. This is all about the law, the rules of intestacy and the winding up of the estate.

You really do need a solicitor to deal with it, to inform your brother that the house will be sold, to administer the estate and pay the beneficiaries. You don't need the stress of dealing with it.

If you want flowers on your mother's coffin, then order them and arrange it with the funeral director. Your wishes are just as important as your brother's.

You really must seek advice from a solicitor ASAP.

My brother was living back at home for many years before my mother died. He encouraged her to make a will stating he could remain in the house for his lifetime, rent free but he’s responsible for its maintenance. My elder sister and I have our own homes and mum wouldn’t see her precious son left homeless. It’s bitterly unfair, he’ll probably outlive my sister and me, and our adult offspring or their children will eventually get the proceeds of mum’s house after my brother dies. The house has been transferred into our three names with Land Registry and we divided her meagre savings, he’s kept all the house contents and my sister took my parents’ wedding rings for safe keeping.

It’s a rotten situation and I really hope you get a fair solution, not one that only suits your brother.

As I think another gransnetter has said, every single payment and expenses that you pay out relating to your mum's house and estate - write it down and keep receipts.

When you give this to this solicitor, it will be taken into account when your mum's estate is sorted out and you will get it back.

My younger sister did this when my parents died within a short time of each other. And then handed over the expenses book. It made life so much easier.

11unicorn These companies only offer a fraction of the true value of the house and then charge rent and will evict you if you do not pay it. They prefer to restrict purchases to houses owned by retired people, as they get possession within a couple of decades.

These schemes are usually taken up by people with debts as a last ditch attempt to keep their home. I knew someone wo did it - and I wouldn't recommend it.

I haven't read all the replies so not sure if someone has said this yet.

I've seen adverts where you can sell the house to a company but continue living in it. Maybe that would be an option so brother could live in it but pay you out at the same time.

My condolences on the loss of your Mum.
I strongly agree with everyone on here regarding getting a Solicitor involved ASAP.
I cannot go into my personal details on here too much but suffice to say I ended having to use Solicitors etc and going to Court when a step parent passed away regarding his Will and it came to mind when I read about your brother and his girlfriend. Have you stopped to think if in the future he moved a lady friend in your DM’s house and eventually he passed away first, and hypothetically lady friend had children from previous relationship and he wrote a Will leaving her your DM house and you hadn’t got your name on it that because she’d lived there for many years until he passed she would very possibly be entitled to carry on living with in the house until her death and you would never have seen your share of the money. With respect you have had a big shock and are grieving at the moment, but after the funeral give yourself a few days but with what I’ve seen go on in my own family the saying that they all come out of the woodwork where money is concerned is so true. One other thought you might relate to or not, when my father passed he left me a half share of his house and the other half to his 2nd wife. As he was dying and went into the coma state. Then after the funeral she put the house on the market and moved without my knowledge, I applied for a copy of his Will online after 6 months and saw it was some home made rubbish she had fraudulently signed his signature and it stated he’d left me £15K on her death!
7 years later I don’t know if she’s dead or not nor do I care but I hadn’t the energy to go to a Solicitor as my health isn’t brilliant these days to challenge her for what I know my Dad did regarding leaving me half his estate. I presume it would have been on proviso that she could live in said house and I got my share on her death. It wouldn’t have entered his head she would have put the house up for sale the week of his funeral as they’d only recently moved into it and he’d done it all up for her. If she’s passed away in the last 6 years her adult children from her first marriage will of inherited her share and my share! So the moral of my story is PLEASE go to a Solicitor at the very least and get your Mums deeds sorted into both your and your brothers names equally. The fact you own your own home is neither here nor there and certainly nothing to do with your brother or his inheritance. You will regret it further down the line if you don’t strike while the irons hot I can assure you having been in similar positions to yourself now.

I have a situation, not quite the same, but just as difficult. My younger brother got Dad to make a new will on a homemade form, which removed me as joint executor. Both my brothers are now in the house but the estate is to be divided 9 ways, don't ask.... A Barrister has given 3 options. 1) revert to intestacy law, 2) if there is a previous will, which there is, revert to previous will, or 3, divide 9 ways. Obviously, brother's would be better off reverting to previous will.

They are refusing to leave the house, tidy or clean it. I cannot gain access as I have no rights now as not executor.
The one thing I do know is, no matter what they try to do, the house will have to be sold. I think that is generally the rule under probate law.
It is always a difficult time and none of us should be put under this extra stress by siblings.
Your brother will be entitled to 50% of the estate which will be more than enough for him to rent for quite some years, so he won't be homeless.

Please do take ok board the advice to get a solicitor to sort this out and for the loans a d gifts to your brother to be taken into account so things are done safely (and the costs of winding up the estate can come out of the estate
My brother did things that were wrong when sorting out mums stuff but fortunately the other executors reined him in on things like not just disposing of items in the house that belonged to me and my sister, he had to ask, but he was very nasty indeed about it. And a out other things. I did my best to rehome some of the stuff that would have just gone to the nearest charity shop to people who would appreciate them, eg my Dads ww1 collection of books, his Dad fought in the Somme, I gave them to the local WW1 history group for example, and took things that they both would have wanted us to keep in the family, and things only of interest to others in the family or local historians. As the oldest some of the stuff that would have been chucked were about people or things that I remembered and photos.
One little practical bit of advice, copy death certificates are cheaper if you order them at the time you register, I did this for mum and so many people wanted to see the original certificate I was glad I had done.

M0nica

honeydo Reading your response, the feeling I get is that your brother dominates you and you feel he has to be placated.

If he has been married and divorced then he is fully adult and must takre responsibility for his own life. If he is 'not a saver by inclination' well that is his problem, and should not play any part in decisions about what happens with the house.

In a situation like this where you have a brother behaving like a large sized cuckoo in the nest, then what you must do is employ a solicitor to deal with the winding up of the estate. This way he will deal with your brother directly and you will be able to step aside from any disagreements you.

In fact I cannot see any alternative to using a solicitor. You clearly know nothing about needs to be done in winding up an estate, and when there is no will that makes it more complicated. It is essential you put this work in a solicitor's hands.

Make sure that the solicitor handling the estate is a specialist in this field. Any reputable soliciotr's firm will have solicitors specialising in this field or will direct you to an approrpiate practioner.

The solicitor's fees will be paid from the estate.

This is good advice

Oh, and you should be paying for the electricity bills, etc. Again, if your brother can't afford it, then he can't live in the house and must move out. End of.

honeydo

Firstly my sincere condolences on your loss.

Please do get a solicitor involved ASAP. They will work to make sure that everything is sorted out fairly and legally. They know the ins and outs of the system. Some solicitors offer a half hour free consultation. Avail yourself of that at least. A solicitor I worked for offered such a half hour consultation for free.

It is not for your brother to dictate to you what should be done and shouldn't. It is for the legal system to determine that.

Your should not be paying your brother's council tax. If he can't afford to pay it, he shouldn't be living in the house. Please go to the council and ensure that the tax is put in his name.

Your brother is a grown man and should be dealing with his own problems, and not be dragging you into it. You don't need to deal with his problems let alone pander to him. He sound's like a bully.

He might not like the fact that you go to a solicitor but it is the right thing to do to ensure that everything is done in a legal way, and things are sorted properly and fairly. That includes deducting the loan and car from your mum's estate. You shouldn't have to lose out. In the long run you will - if you don't get a solicitor involved.

Please please get in touch with a solicitor. We all want you to have a good outcome in the end.

You really do need to get legal advice …this could get complicated .
Take carec

The OP honeydo obviously has no intention of exercising her rights of inheritance. Every post I've read has recommended getting a solicitor. It seems she won't do that. I hope she's made her own will. If she dies intestate and her brother is her only family, he'll get whatever she leaves. It sounds as though she might as well give it all to him now!