DWP Proposing To Scrutinize Bank Accounts?

I'm sure I've mentioned I was involved in assessing people requiring care. How is this for abuse of the system? Old gent had a mobility car. Explaining what would happened asked where car was kept and as he was unable to drive, who took him out in it. No-one took him out and it was kept 150 miles away, his GD being the sole user. Car coudd be kept at care home for staff to use with him or surrendered. It was surrendered. The system is manipulated in many ways.

Just had to post regarding this! People here are asking why the DWP should rely on the word of the claimant alone when determining whether or not a person is entitled to means tested state benefits. Well they didn’t have to! Years ago when I was a civil servant working for the old DHSS we interviewed EVERY claimant and needed actual proof of bank accounts, savings etc. Of course it still left room for fraud but at a vastly reduced rate, I would guess. (I worked on the Fraud team too). It was the decision of the new department, the DWP, to get rid of this system (cost cutting, less staff needed!) and replace it with a much more streamlined one, mostly online. If access to bank accounts is allowed in this way now, it will open a can of worms for future surveillance by HMRC etc etc. Many people won’t like that one bit! As regards disability assessments, perhaps the posters here should be aware of just how difficult it is to be awarded disability benefits as a result of them and just how many are wrong, resulting in over 60% of claims denied being overturned at appeal tribunals. The media whip themselves up into a frenzy about ‘scroungers’ and the like. The reality is very different for many among us.

I have had the mobility compound of DLA - PIPS as it’s now called- for many years . I became disabled as a toddler due to polio’ vaccine damage. ( No, there was no compensation). I ALWAYS worked . It’s a common misconception that those in receipt of benefits don’t earn their own living. I did and worked past retirement age, contributing my fair share out of my salaried professional pay. The mobility allowance was , as my doctor said, a way of keeping me in work by making travelling to work less risky and painful.

DaisyAnneReturns

And is that all fraud Maizie? They usually lump together errors and fraud, and that includes DWP as well as client errors.

Why do they have to paint everyone, who claims on their insurance, as fraudsters. I know I know the answer to that, but how did these people become so awful, so heartless. It makes me think, once again, that they want older people to die off. Some of them will out of anxiety.

Another load of utter nonsense DAR. Nobody has anything to be anxious about if they have done nothing wrong - and if they haven’t, how likely do you think they are to be investigated (see numbers of benefit claimants above)? And why would this government want older people to die off when so many of them are Conservative voters? A nonsense often trotted out by certain posters.

4allweknow

Surely if you are claiming any benefit providing evidence of you assets shouldn't be an issue. Off hand I know of a retired person who moved a large chinks if her cas into a daughters bank a/c, wauted six months then applied for benefits successfully. Another at the other end of the age scale, mother was claiming assistance with childcare costs declaring working minimum hours when working full time in a well paid job. Childminder did report her as she was always late in being paid. Abuse of the system does go on probably more than we realise.

Or it could be less than you chose to believe. How would you know if you don't accept the government figures?

And is that all fraud Maizie? They usually lump together errors and fraud, and that includes DWP as well as client errors.

Why do they have to paint everyone, who claims on their insurance, as fraudsters. I know I know the answer to that, but how did these people become so awful, so heartless. It makes me think, once again, that they want older people to die off. Some of them will out of anxiety.

Oops - large chunks of cash.

Surely if you are claiming any benefit providing evidence of you assets shouldn't be an issue. Off hand I know of a retired person who moved a large chinks if her cas into a daughters bank a/c, wauted six months then applied for benefits successfully. Another at the other end of the age scale, mother was claiming assistance with childcare costs declaring working minimum hours when working full time in a well paid job. Childminder did report her as she was always late in being paid. Abuse of the system does go on probably more than we realise.

Now for a bit of whataboutery.

Apparently the government says it lost some £6billion in 2023 in benefit fraud, 2.7% of the benefits payments. It reckons that their legislation will recover £100million a year. Wow!

Yet in the 13 years since 2010 it's estimated by HMRC that at least some £34billion a year has been lost in tax fraud and evasion. There is nothing in this proposed legislation to counter this

Prem Sikka sits in the House of Lords

leftfootforward.org/2023/12/prem-sikka-how-the-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill-is-the-governments-latest-erosion-of-hard-won-rights/

Germanshepherdsmum

It bothers me not one jot. However I hope it bothers some who, like the person I mentioned upthread, have more than one bank account for nefarious reasons, and those who deal in cash whose bank accounts don’t match their lifestyle.

I know it doesn't bother you. Sadly it doesn't suprise me.

It bothers me not one jot. However I hope it bothers some who, like the person I mentioned upthread, have more than one bank account for nefarious reasons, and those who deal in cash whose bank accounts don’t match their lifestyle.

gosh, thanks HPQ.
i was composing in my mind why someone disabled might well have good use for a bidet.
just as well i left it.

Thank you for your posts Maisie.

Also, having 'nothing to hide' can change in a heartbeat if a dictatorship takes power, and the fact that these powers are on the books is very worrying.

Precisely, Doodledog

I should have highlighted this bit of Bryant's speech;

In some instances, they give very extensive new powers to Ministers,

Bella51

I agree with most of what's been said here. The problem is everywhere. I know of a family who have never worked not sure what benefits they are on, but the houses (3) are being paid for. They trail for miles in a DLA car to raid all the food banks, then hand it out to whoever wants it, and dump what they then don't want. They can afford to drink regularly and gamble. One of them even has a bidiein in her free house. Why can't the authorities see these things.

Are you sure? Really? I could unpick this apart, bit by bit, but just cannot be bothered. Oh, there is not such thing as a DLA car.
For those wondering, in among this nonsense; a 'bidiein' is a man to whom the woman is not married. Shock Horror

The discussion in Parliament was about the fact that it would allow access to those only on State Pension too. Also that they would be able to sell the data. If that is true I'm sure they would mine yours quite happily Germanshepherdsmum.

I doubt many people on benefit "benefits" would feel they could object but I have spent the early part of this thread trying to reassure people that they would not have/would not want access to those just on State Pension. Now it seems they will.

Apparently, they are able to do this but would not have been if we were still in the EU. This is not about yours or anyone else's accounts being above board. It is about basic democracy and our civil rights.

What would their bank accounts show, though, Bella? Most people who live like that are probably 'below the radar' and deal in cash rather than putting things through the bank.

I don't receive benefits, and 'have nothing to hide', but I hate the idea of anyone knowing where I spend my money and on what. Even my husband doesn't know that (although I would tell him if he asked). If I want to spend all my money on gin and sausages, or donate to the Munchkin Appreciation Society that is my business.

Also, having 'nothing to hide' can change in a heartbeat if a dictatorship takes power, and the fact that these powers are on the books is very worrying.

Last week the Government "sneeked" an amendment into their Data Protection Bill

According to Chris Byant, moving a motion to have the Bill re-presented, the government snook in more than one amendment😱

From Hansard:

On the last available day, 182 days after Committee, the Government brought out 240 amendments. Some are indeed minor and technical, but many are very significant. They strike to the heart of the independence of the new Information Commission, they alter the rights of the public in making subject access requests, and they amend our system in a way that may or may not enhance our data adequacy with the US and the European Union and therefore British businesses’ ability to rely on UK legislation to trade overseas. In some instances, they give very extensive new powers to Ministers, and they introduce completely new topics that have never been previously mooted, debated or scrutinised by Parliament in relation to this Bill, which already has more baubles on it than the proverbial Christmas tree. The end result is that we have 156 pages of amendments to consider today in a single debate.

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-11-29/debates/46EF0AA6-C729-4751-A3DA-6A3683EB8B87/DataProtectionAndDigitalInformationBill

It's worth reading the whole speech. If it's nothing else, this is an example of the government's determination to avoid proper parliamentary scrutiny of proposed legislation.

I agree with most of what's been said here. The problem is everywhere. I know of a family who have never worked not sure what benefits they are on, but the houses (3) are being paid for. They trail for miles in a DLA car to raid all the food banks, then hand it out to whoever wants it, and dump what they then don't want. They can afford to drink regularly and gamble. One of them even has a bidiein in her free house. Why can't the authorities see these things.

There is no reason for ‘them’ to come after me DAR. I claim the SP, nothing else and I wouldn’t qualify for any means tested benefits. My financial affairs are completely transparent and are handled by a chartered accountant. The DWP, HMRC, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all can have a look at my accounts and investments tomorrow if they want provided the law entitles them to. I have nothing to hide from anyone and never have had.

Will you still be saying that when they come after you Germanshepherdsmum

Cossy

Parts of the DWP, in common with parts of HMRC, already have legal powers to scrutinise bank accounts should they suspect fraud is taking place.

Yet another click-bait headline to set people off.

This is an amendment Cossy. Not an existing power. Could I suggest you do some research before you bestow your false accusations of "clickbait".

And yes, I am upset. With this undemocratic bill being passed!

techmonitor.ai/government-computing/data-protection-bill-digital-information-dwp-benefit-claimants

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance

www.independent.co.uk/money/new-data-powers-could-allow-dwp-to-snoop-on-pensioners-bank-accounts-b2455706.html

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2023-11-29/debates/46EF0AA6-C729-4751-A3DA-6A3683EB8B87/DataProtectionAndDigitalInformationBill

www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/analysis/uk-data-protection-digital-information-bill

DaisyAnneReturns

Last week the Government "sneeked" an amendment into their Data Protection Bill which allows the to monitor the bank accounts of people who are not even suspected of crimes.

There appears to be no formal process. There does seem to besome suggestions that this will allow the government to also monitor the bank accounts of people in receipt of State Pension.

Is this in order to make the State Pension a means tested benefit? Can you think of any other reason?

They can only do this because of Brexit.

www.retailbankerinternational.com/news/bank-spying-clause-added-to-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ8Zk2j8NT0

‘There does (sic) seem to be some suggestions’. Only by conspiracy theorists. Utter nonsense.

This would be an additional power Cossy - at present DWP only have the ability to look at bank accounts when they have launched a formal investigation. This would enable the gathering of evidence in order to begin a formal investigation.

For PaddyAnn - sure, "never trust a Tory". However, if you're putting your faith in ANY politician, any badge, the evidence from many years says that's shortsighted cum absolutely barmy!

Check out the MPs that have been jailed, a number of Labour people there. Any LibDems wanting to get on a squeaky-clean pedestal, well, have a think about Cyril Smith, David Steel and that lovable Jeremy Thorpe? Any Tories still wanting to claim the high ground, go and berate their members who gave us Liz serial incompetent Truss as PM, and put in place a system to stop THEM voting for anything ever again?!