How to prove I paid NI from 1959 - 1977

TinSoldier

Ah! Thank you. Right reason but later than I thought. 1940 just as growstuff said. I had it in my head that it was a 100 years ago. I must have been thinking of 1925. I hadn't realised it had taken seventeen years to reduce the pensions age from 70 to 65. And here we are, almost a hundred years later, with talk of pension age going back up to 71 by 2050.

Life expectancy has risen since then.

It all sounds so frustrating. Definitely not an equal world.

I was just wondering whether you can claim pension credit to top your pension up?
My mum had pension credit as her state pension didn’t reach a certain threshold. It carried extra ‘benefits’ with it eg much cheaper glasses. But she was a widow and I don’t know if they take your husband’s income into account.

Ah! Thank you. Right reason but later than I thought. 1940 just as growstuff said. I had it in my head that it was a 100 years ago. I must have been thinking of 1925. I hadn't realised it had taken seventeen years to reduce the pensions age from 70 to 65. And here we are, almost a hundred years later, with talk of pension age going back up to 71 by 2050.

www.web40571.clarahost.co.uk/statepensionage/SPA_history.htm#:~:text=In%201940%20pension%20age%20for,as%20the%20husband%20reached%2065.&text=From%201948%2C%20men%20had%20to,under%20the%20National%20Insurance%20scheme.

The age when women could receive a SP was changed more quickly because of EU Equality Laws according to this history of SPA.

I thought it dated back to when married men were first given pensions in the early 1900s. At first men had to wait until their wives also reached the same pension age as men before they could get an additional amount for them.

On the basis that men often married women a few years younger than themselves, this meant that married men were often having to support two people on the same money as an unmarried man. The law was changed so that a man could get an additional payment for his wife when she turned 60 not 65. And that's how 60 became the de facto pensionable age for women whether she contributed to her own pension or not.

That is my understanding from a history of the state pension that I read somewhere a long time ago but happy to be corrected if that's wrong.

TinSoldier The pension age for women was reduced to 60 in 1940.

Thank goodness it was phased out.
It was a con trick.

I worked with just such a woman. I know she didn’t work again after having children. I wonder if she finds it amusing now - I doubt it.

When I started work in the early 70 's the married woman's stamp was phased out.
If you had started it, it carried on for a while but as a new starter you were never entitled to it.
I was only 17, definitely not married but one of my colleagues who was in her early 20's and married had it, she thought it was amusing I had to pay more than her. Remember it well..

If you carried on working when you were in receipt of Child Benefit but paid the Married Woman's Stamp, then those years do not count, apparently.

Another anomaly.

I came to grief with having paid the married woman's stamp for several years as well jeanie99 I hadn't realised I paid it for so long. I now only receive half the pension my husband does despite having worked all my life. C'est la vie.

TinSoldier posted this on another thread:

www.lcp.com/mothers-missing-millions

jeanie99 if you are still reading this thread:

In a recent communication from HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), significant information regarding Home Responsibilities Protection (HRP) and its impact on National Insurance records and State Pension entitlement has been brought to light. This development may have far-reaching implications for individuals’ retirement plans, particularly for women in their 60s and 70s who are most likely to be affected.

The Issue
Certain individuals may find that their National Insurance records lack the necessary Home Responsibilities Protection, which can subsequently influence their State Pension calculations. To address this issue, HMRC and the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) are collaboratively working to rectify affected records and ensure that individuals receive their rightful State Pension amounts.

warr.co.uk/blog/family-services/important-update-from-hmrc-home-responsibilities-protection-and-state-pension-entitlement/

jeanie99

So many stories, I can't write mine too private but I lived in poverty thru the 60s although working.
Just a thank you to everyone who commented just had to get it off my chest after speaking to pensions.

Presumably you are already in receipt of your State Pension, like me.

I really thought thst if I logged on to the Government website I would see a detailed account of my NI contributory years but no, not any more.

If you ask for a forecast before retirement it should be well set out I think.

It is all very complicated on the letter which shows an annual increase, too.

Crikey! You managed to speak to someone?? 😲

So many stories, I can't write mine too private but I lived in poverty thru the 60s although working.
Just a thank you to everyone who commented just had to get it off my chest after speaking to pensions.

Freya5

jeanie99

I am trying to have checked why my state pension is low. When I married I paid the married women's stamp for many years only increasing to the larger stamp in later years.
I've corresponded with Pensions for months made many phone calls and written to them.
What I have learned so far is that Pensions do not consider Home Responsibility Protection before 1978, I had two of my children before that period so have lost any consideration in my pension.
This is grossly unfair to me when other women receive the benefit.
A letter came this week saying in short my pension is based from 1977 to retirement.
So what about the years I worked 1959 - 1977 (18 yrs) when I worked and paid tax and NI. They have not considered this at all.
The letter states my pension is based on my contribution graduated pension paid and post 02 (not sure what that is) and uplifted to 60% by my husbands contributes.
They have no checkable records, many records are archived.
I have been told I will need to prove I paid NI in the period 1959 - 1977.
I know of some of the companies I worked for and who are still trading but most have closed down.
This clearly can't just apply to me.
I was told to make a request to Revenue to ask for a
SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST of the records but need to have the companies names.
My husband said even if you could prove employment I still might not reach the 60% I receive now so would be a complete waste of time.
I am so aggrieved by this for so many reasons.

Yes, the Government of those days condemned women for staying at home and looking after their children,cannot claim those years but can since done in 70s I believe.
Then of course the notorious married women's stamp.
So many have been deprived of a decent pension because of this, and WASPIEs think they're hard done by!!!

What an unhelpful comment Freya5. Women who get less pension because they paid the married woman’s stamp have been treated badly by the government. WASPIs have also been treated badly by the government. One does not out-trump the other.

Married women were initially allowed to pay a reduced rate of national insurance contributions in return for forgoing pension and certain other benefit rights. They signed a form stating that they had read the information booklet and had made an informed trade-off.

What information booklet? 😲

We never saw an information booklet. We had an HR Officer come to tell us that there was no need to pay the full stamp, we could pay a Married Woman's stamp and, don't worry, our State Pension would be covered by our husbands' contributions.
This was the NHS.

Naïve? Perhaps
Lied to? Certainly.

Having tried to wade my way through the Government website yesterday, jeanie99, I can understand your frustration. I thought my State Pension was wrong.

If you are already in receipt of your pension it is impossible to find out if it is correct or not or exactly how many full contributory years you have! Apparently you have to write in with exact details which you have tried to do.

You need to work out the number of years you paid a full stamp.
When did you marry and did you pay the Married women's Stamp ( a swindle) from that date or a bit later?

Even if your children were born before 1978, if you received Child Benefit for them between the years of 1978 and 2010, you supposedly had Home Responsibilities Protection and your NI stamp paid.
My Government Gateway account said I did not have a full year's NI payments for several of those years when in fact I did.

If you were a woman born before 1953 you would need 39 years of full NI contributions to get the basic old State Pension of £156.20 for next year, 2023/34.

That is how I understood it.

I realise after posting this that I should be grateful I am not a Waspi . I agree you are more hard done by than me!

Just to add I always paid the full stamp not the married one.

This has renewed my sense of grievance about not getting a full pension because I didn’t work for 39 years. However, a man with my birth year, 1949, would, if he had worked 30 years like me.

If you're a woman you usually need: 30 qualifying years if you were born between 1950 and 1953. 39 qualifying years if were born before 1950.

If you're a man you usually need: 30 qualifying years if you were born between 1945 and 1951. 44 qualifying years if you were born before 1945.

It really isn’t the same as the WASPI issue. Women who had expected to receive their state pension at 60, as had been the case for a century, had to wait another six years as a consequence of the government equalising the male and female state pension age. Many women had already paid 35 years (or more) of full rate NIC, enough years to qualify for a full pension but still had to wait. Some were never advised of the changes. The arguments go on. But the fact is we had no choice. The argument was never about equalisation but about how poorly it was done.

This is a different issue entirely. Married women were initially allowed to pay a reduced rate of national insurance contributions in return for forgoing pension and certain other benefit rights. They signed a form stating that they had read the information booklet and had made an informed trade-off.

This was Jeff Rooker MP Minister of State, Department of Social Security speaking in 2000:

However, most people in this country have not got a clue about how the national insurance system works. I must be careful about my language; it seems to me that most people do not fully appreciate the starkness of the position. Single men pay the same rate of national insurance as married men. The stark reality is that married couples who rely on the pension of the man are subsidised by the contributions of single people. Although no one puts it quite like that, that is how the system works. There is no differential between the rate for single people and married men. A married man will collect 160 per cent of pension, including 60 per cent. for his wife, if she is not contributing.

There are many quirky bits such as that in the national insurance system and, occasionally, they come up and bite us. I remember the married women's option, as it was called; I dealt with it when I was a junior manager in the engineering industry in the 1960s. It was a flat rate of one shilling. Everyone knew that the only thing that it covered was industrial injury. The women on the production line at Salter's in West Bromwich knew that—it was common knowledge. That was all they got for their shilling. Of course, their wages were so low that they could not have contemplated paying the full rate. More women were coming into the work force, but they were, predominantly, on low pay. That is why there were campaigns about equal pay and related issues at that time.

There was an informed choice … a signature was required before someone could opt out of the full rate of national insurance.

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2000-05-23/debates/5243214e-508e-40e6-ba68-6d9267570f8a/PensionRights(MarriedWomen)

If you were married during the years in question, does your husband get an enhanced state pension to account for your lower contributions?

My Dad gets far more in his state pension than I do, and I get the full new pension.
I don't know whether this is because Mum paid the reduced NI, or purely age-related (he was born in 1931, Mum in 1932).

There’s no point in checking those years if you were only paying the married women’s stamp.