Sale of home to fund care

OnwardandUpward

Yes I did mean CHC. I have not heard much about it, but know it exists and that its mainly based on medical needs. I am not sure what the medical needs have to be as most have some and yes I'm aware that it's very difficult to get.

When the NHS was created it was supposed to provide "Cradle to Grave" care and it's not been the case for a while, sadly.

It is sad that so many continue without help and that the family assets continue to be lost because the government has also made rent extortionate and today's young people will struggle to get a foot on the housing ladder.

The question is then, at what age do we need to put our property "in trust" before it's counted as disposing of assets?

I got NHS Continuing Health Care for my Mum for the last 3 months of her life and it wasn’t difficult. Her GP had not heard of it so I got the forms, filled in as much as I could to save him doing it and said this was what I wanted for my Mum. He signed and it was sorted within a week. I am sure he thought I was a bossy woman but I couldn’t care less as Mum was my priority.😝

My next mission is to try to reclaim the 3 years fees she paid at around £900 a week.

My brother currently pays £8000.00 per month for residential nursing care.. he was denied Attendance Allowance

Yes I did mean CHC. I have not heard much about it, but know it exists and that its mainly based on medical needs. I am not sure what the medical needs have to be as most have some and yes I'm aware that it's very difficult to get.

When the NHS was created it was supposed to provide "Cradle to Grave" care and it's not been the case for a while, sadly.

It is sad that so many continue without help and that the family assets continue to be lost because the government has also made rent extortionate and today's young people will struggle to get a foot on the housing ladder.

The question is then, at what age do we need to put our property "in trust" before it's counted as disposing of assets?

My mum had to go into a care home when her dementia became a risk to her safety - she was wandering the streets at night and knocking on shop doors to ask why they weren't open. I didn't live close by and knew none of this but all her neighbours did and never said a dicky bird to me. I learned when the police rang me one night to say she had been reported waiting for a non-existent bus at 3 a.m. and they had taken her home. I learnt even more shocking tales of her behaviour when I talked to her neighbours in more detail.

We had earlier taken out an insurance policy which would have paid a (substantial) amount for care fees after 3 years but in the meantime we sold her house and used the proceeds to pay for a nice (but not posh) care home. She died of an unrelated health problem after 9 months so we still had a fair amount of the house proceeds left but never claimed on the insurance policy so the (high) cost was wasted. I didn't mind that cos I always knew it was a risk but one I was prepared to take. Such insurance policies are now illegal.

As some have said there are two "levels" of care, one is where "hospital-style care" is needed (e.g. specialist care/treatment) which is free in specialist care homes but apparently needs fighting for very hard, and more general care where the person has no serious health issues but could have dementia. The costs are considered to be "hotel costs" so unless you have virtually no assets you must pay the entire bill. This would usually be from your income (pensions, bank interest, and you would get Attendance Allowance too) plus any addition the care home chooses to add (which can be a lot of money) so the home must be used to finance this - providing there is no spouse or dependent child still living there. It doesn't HAVE to be sold, the local authority will allow a debt to be accrued for the unpaid amount and reclaim it on the eventual sale, so it could be rented out to produce income.

As already said on here, that presupposes there is someone prepared to manage all that for an unspecified period. If the money runs out the LA will pay the care fees but if the home charges more than the LA is prepared to pay the person might have to move. That can be terribly distressing. However, many care homes charge lower rates in this case or they would not fill all their rooms. The private residents make a bit of profit for them.

Contrary to some opinions, care homes do not make huge profits - things such as legal requirements, insurance, the percentage of trained staff as well as general running costs and wages, never mind improvements, redecorating etc soon eat into profits. Plus many homes find it difficult to attract and retain good staff and have to resort to high agency fees to meet the need.

Care in the home is about the same cost as a care home with the problem of staff changing often, being absent, not being dedicated, and no-one else taking responsibility for it.

And yes, as with everything in life, there is something that grates when a person lives without making any provision for anything seems to get away with everything for free when others make the effort to provide for themselves.

When my late DH had 2 strokes in Jan 2023 and it was decided that he would have to go into a home our savings were going to be split 50/50.
Both social services and Age UK told me that our house could not be sold as l was living in it. I was also told by Age UK that l could apply for 50 % of my DH private pension, once he was in the home.
In the end no home could be found to match his needs as all the suitable homes turned him down as at 62 years old he was too young. They had a 65 year Age limit.
After much fighting with the hospital, l managed to get him hone with carers for the last month of his life.

This cap has been continually put off. Had the conservatives wanted it implemented they could have done it a number of times but chose not to.

I can’t read the express article but will assume it’s Labour bashing. They have been in power 4 weeks. Tories 14 years.

This explains the latest and is from this weekend.

The £86,000 cap was supposed to be in place by 2025 but a change in government means it won’t happen.

www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1931640/dementia-tax-social-care-social-care-cap-inheritance-nursing-home-costs-Rachel-Reeves#

Nanna58

There are NO ways to legally avoid care fees and own your home as someone suggested- trust me I’ve looked!
Mother’s house money nearly all gone , if we have to move her I think it’ll kill her at 98
I shall have to sell our house and move to fund my husband’s care costs and be able to financially maintain a small place for myself

It’s an absolute nightmare

👏👏

I know somebody who thought she was smart and got some dodgy trust for her mother’s house. She got found out though and had to pay the whole lot back.

There are NO ways to legally avoid care fees and own your home as someone suggested- trust me I’ve looked!
Mother’s house money nearly all gone , if we have to move her I think it’ll kill her at 98
I shall have to sell our house and move to fund my husband’s care costs and be able to financially maintain a small place for myself

It’s an absolute nightmare

We are all taxed with the smallest work pension which when added to the state pension totals more than 12,000£.

As for continuing health care it’s hard to get, but because the nhs looked after the elderly in long stay wards until it was privatised by M.Thatcher et al, they still have a responsibility.
So CHC may be paid by the nhs within very strict guidelines.

Mt61

Shill29

Mt61, I agree. Plus by working for two years beyond pensionable age to boost pension and contributing to a small private pension I’m now be taxed on it.

Not worth working your back side off to buy a house, I bet all these people that rent, will get social care paid for, especially if they have no savings- I’ve worked in social care, I have seen it all 🙄

Then you should know that at least you have a choice of care if you have a house to sell, not everyone needs care anyway. There is a high proportion of the community who live happily in their own home until the end. It is becoming more and more the norm these days. Particularly because if you stay in your property or at least one of you do they cannot touch your property. You could also put in trust when you purchase, that way it is not deprivation of care costs. So many ways to legally avoid care costs and still own your own home. I am sure there are many GNs on here who have inherited property and are thankful they did.

Shill29

Mt61, I agree. Plus by working for two years beyond pensionable age to boost pension and contributing to a small private pension I’m now be taxed on it.

Not worth working your back side off to buy a house, I bet all these people that rent, will get social care paid for, especially if they have no savings- I’ve worked in social care, I have seen it all 🙄

Mt61, I agree. Plus by working for two years beyond pensionable age to boost pension and contributing to a small private pension I’m now be taxed on it.

OnwardandUpward

There is still Continuity of Care funding, which is rarely talked about and hard to access.

I think you mean CHC i.e. Continued Health Care which is different to continuity of care which is the 4 or 6 weeks after care you can get free through the NHS when you are discharged from hospital. CHC is actually talked about a lot and no one should be discharged from hospital without a CHC assessment if it is likely at all that this may be possible, but it is very difficult to get as it is totally Health led, whereas most cared for require social care. I know they often cross over and most people would not need the social care if their health was alright but that is another debate.

Care at home works when you can get paid carers during the day and family members do nighttime care, that was arranged for Father in Law, it lasted 2yrs. It does mean the family have got to step up and do the work, if dementure or aggression was involved home care may not be practical or safe.

I don't have the up to date info to answer accurately but Independent Age are a charity who do and they are very helpful

Mt61

Great, work hard, save hard, pay taxes the government takes the majority to pay for the care- on the other hand you piss/ smoke your money up the wall, don’t work, it gets all handed to on plate free of charge

....and don't forget Rachel Reeves has removed the Winter Fuel Payment from all those pensioners who AREN'T on benefits.

There is still Continuity of Care funding, which is rarely talked about and hard to access.

karmalady

There is no cap any more. I did see that taking the average care home stay and the average cost, people will be paying an average of £17,000 more than £86,000

There has never been a cap, the Tories postponed it several times.

I hadn't realised that elderly care used to be covered by the NHS. But then Margaret Thatcher privatised it so now the costs of it includes profits for private companies, pushing prices up.
A friend shared this with me
tribunemag.co.uk/2020/12/when-margaret-thatcher-privatised-social-care

Yes and we actually considered that for an elderly relative, but the home had become run down and needed a lot of work.

It's definitely worth considering, but for us the care home bill at the time was £1200 a week and rent that could have been fetched was only £300 a week, plus at times where there was no tenant we would have had to pay the bills.

We also considered Air B&B because it was in a nice location, but again not possible without living close enough to manage it ourselves, which was in fact the reason we couldn't do 24 hour care. As my friend who is a social worker explained, you need to visit daily to give the care worker a break and also you need to oversee them because they are often young people and can be lazy, so you need to make sure they are doing their job properly.

If you are self funding you can go in care home if and when you want to, if you aren't self funding you have to have eligible needs before you are considered for a care home. You will need a care assessment followed by a financial assessment. If you have property, this either needs to be sold or you can ask for a deferred payment. If sold all the funds are used to pay for care. From £23500 the LA start paying some of the costs. It is however not until you reach £16.500 that you become totally funded. |At this stage you may have to move care home, if the home you originally chose do not accept LA funded clients. It is therefore best to choose a home which will guarantee you do not have to move if you run out of funds. although that does not give you so much choice and may not be acceptable to you either.
As far as the cap is concerned this was as many others have already said never put in place, discussed for many years what it would and would not cover and decided in the end it would only cover the actual care costs, but we now hear it has been totally scrapped. What a waste of money, time and effort working on it for so long yet not putting it in to action. Here is |A||GE| UK link to who pays for care. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/&ved=2ahUKEwjujujy292HAxWVVkEAHT9WNDgQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0_wd5BEBEfvvMwQ9w71whp

It's worth considering if letting the persons home provides enough each month to pay care home fees.

Yes, the disadvantage of 24 hour carers is, you need a second bedroom for the carer to use, the carer is also entitled to a 2 hour break each day. And yes you still have to run the house. I think it would be worth it for couples where one of them needs care and they want to remain together in their own home, though.

You are right of course, that the care home offers all of the above benefits.

So yes, if part of a couple I think 24 hour home care could work but if single, better to go in a carehome. Or if other partner can't cope, better to go in a carehome.

People used to really fear going in care homes, but from what I've seen they are very nice.

Having carers 24 hrs can cost more than a care home and the responsibility is still on the family . Every time a problem occurs they’ll contact you to deal with it. On top of carers wages you still have to run the home- heat, light, food, repairs, council tax etc
The care home looks after them 24hrs and the problems are then removed to a great extent. Also, residents get great healthcare in a home whereas at home it’s up to you to arrange. My dad’s care home has Dr on call (& visiting every week for one am), chiropodist, hairdresser, dentist & optician, & a physio(once a week) care homes also provide entertainment & nice events so residents are not lonely or bored.
The burden of home care is huge - sounds better but in my opinion isn’t - fit the reasons above.