Higher and Lower rate of State Pension,. This really needs changing

We do too for Pension Credit but I could see this helping get over the low "bump" of PC.

I think SP has been a useful top-up or even the only source of income and the poorest, personal pension wise are very likely to be the oldest and women.

I agree about having your own pension (where possible). Could the Workplace Pension be improved I wonder?

Thank you for such a useful discussion Brahumbug.

I am totally banjaxed by this pension scenario. I was a full time housewife and mother. My former husband swore blind that he was paying the married woman's stamp. He stopped this but told me that he was paying into a private pension for us both. I trusted him - as you do. Silly me!!!

Only in the divorce court was it that I discovered that a minimal amount had been paid into the State facility and that I was not entitled to any of the private pension (the law has since changed, I think).

I am now snookered. State pension is £192. That is it. Don't forget that I did not start to work until I was in my mid forties. It was not expected and I did not have to. Okay, I was lucky. But I cannot believe that I am the only person in this situation. I cannot change the past but it does not help the present.

I'm afraid that's a problem only courts can sort out dalrymple23 not an issue with the pension system.

dalrymple23

I am totally banjaxed by this pension scenario. I was a full time housewife and mother. My former husband swore blind that he was paying the married woman's stamp. He stopped this but told me that he was paying into a private pension for us both. I trusted him - as you do. Silly me!!!

Only in the divorce court was it that I discovered that a minimal amount had been paid into the State facility and that I was not entitled to any of the private pension (the law has since changed, I think).

I am now snookered. State pension is £192. That is it. Don't forget that I did not start to work until I was in my mid forties. It was not expected and I did not have to. Okay, I was lucky. But I cannot believe that I am the only person in this situation. I cannot change the past but it does not help the present.

Are you drawing the pension or is that the predicted amount?

dalrymple23 It would be helpful if you came back to discuss what you posted as a few things don't add up.

Firstly, why would your husband pay the married women's stamp? That would be something you would do when you were working. However, by the time you were in your 40s it didn't exist so you would have paid your own NI and gained NI years then. You may also have been credited for some child care years if that was why you were not working. There are other reasons for credits too. That is worth checking.

In addition, when you claim, the government do take your divorced status into account and you get extra for that based on your husbands contributions. Your ex-husband would not be in involved with this. That may have happened but it's worth checking.

If £192 is your only income you may be able to get Pension Credit but you do have to claim it. If you have claimed and been turned down ask why. The DWP are very helpful and will explain why.

The husband paying married women's stamp makes no sense to me either!

PoliticsNerd

We do too for Pension Credit but I could see this helping get over the low "bump" of PC.

I think SP has been a useful top-up or even the only source of income and the poorest, personal pension wise are very likely to be the oldest and women.

I agree about having your own pension (where possible). Could the Workplace Pension be improved I wonder?

Thank you for such a useful discussion Brahumbug.

It was nice to have a sensible discussion with you as well. Definitely better than some of the ill informed nonsense posted earlier in the thread!

dalrymple23

I am totally banjaxed by this pension scenario. I was a full time housewife and mother. My former husband swore blind that he was paying the married woman's stamp. He stopped this but told me that he was paying into a private pension for us both. I trusted him - as you do. Silly me!!!

Only in the divorce court was it that I discovered that a minimal amount had been paid into the State facility and that I was not entitled to any of the private pension (the law has since changed, I think).

I am now snookered. State pension is £192. That is it. Don't forget that I did not start to work until I was in my mid forties. It was not expected and I did not have to. Okay, I was lucky. But I cannot believe that I am the only person in this situation. I cannot change the past but it does not help the present.

There is not nor ever has been a "married couples pension". It is a term coined by the media as a quick way to describe the income for a pensioner couple.
It usually refers to a couple where the man gets a full pension, but the wife (usually because of child rearing or being on the married womens NI stamp) claims a reduced "married womans pension" based on her husbands NI. moneysavingexpert
That could be up to 60% if the wife did not work.

I was a full time housewife and mother
Home Responsibilities Protection began in April 1978 (ended in 2010) if you were in receipt of Child Benefit. That meant your NI stamp was credited.

If you went back to work in your 40s you would have paid the full NI stamp not the Married Woman's stamp as it had been abolished.

If your State Pension is £192 per that means you have below the required amount of contributions for a full new State Pension. You can log into the Government Gateway site to check your contributions.

It is still quite a lot more than those on the old State Pension.

If you are under the amount for Pension Credit, you need to investigate if you are entitled to any additional benefits.

It was nice to have a sensible discussion with you as well. Definitely better than some of the ill informed nonsense posted earlier in the thread!

Not everyone understand the complexities of the ever-changing pension system so there is really no need for rudeness.

Allira

^It was nice to have a sensible discussion with you as well. Definitely better than some of the ill informed nonsense posted earlier in the thread^!

Not everyone understand the complexities of the ever-changing pension system so there is really no need for rudeness.

There is every need when I have explained the facts accurately, only to be told I am factually incorrect. Bluntness is the only way to get through to some people.

No, you just told dalrymple23 what she said made no sense.
You said some people had blinkered views.

But carry on being blunt as you call it, just don't expect others to read your posts if you are "blunt" ie rude.

Allira

No, you just told dalrymple23 what she said made no sense.
You said some people had blinkered views.

But carry on being blunt as you call it, just don't expect others to read your posts if you are "blunt" ie rude.

Did you not read what I said?
I said it made no sense to ME. Her statement doesn't make sense in terms of the pension legislation and I was hoping she would come back and elaborate so we could offer some concrete advice. My remark regarding ill informed posts refers to earlier in the thread before dalrymple23 joined the conversation.

So several posters are ill-informed, blinkered, make no sense etc.
🤔

If so they might appreciate information offered in a kind way.

Allira

So several posters are ill-informed, blinkered, make no sense etc.
🤔

If so they might appreciate information offered in a kind way.

I have not at any point said blinkered please don't put words in my mouth. Please read the full thread. I made factual statements regarding the new state pension. The exact wording of another poster was that I was factually incorrect, despite the fact that I was spot on. If they had bothered to fact check they would have seen I was right. That is the kind of post I object to, and will continue to object to. If I make an error and someone can demonstrate how I am wrong then I will happily accept the correction.

For any one who wants to see examples of the transitional arrangements for the pension after 2016, then follow this link. The calculation is a bit complicated but understandable!

www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-state-pension-if-youve-been-contracted-out-of-additional-state-pension/the-new-state-pension-transition-and-contracting-out-fact-sheet

I do think that, when dealing with legalities, we really need to understand and be accurate before going in to print. Otherwise we mislead.

Someone suggested that Pension Credit makes the Basic State Pension up to the Deferred Years Pension so it's worth comparing these figures and considering the effect of triple-lock and compounding.

For the year 24/25:

Basic Pension: 169.50
Pension Credi: 218.15
State Defered Years: 221.20

The triple-lock compounds each year - any equal percentage interest will - so each of these get further apart.

The Joseph Rowntree trust suggests a minimum income standard for pensioners of £17,200 or £330.77. The state expects the the individual to make up the difference with personal pensions. The Workplace Pension scheme will help with this but the poorest pensioners are still likely to be a) women and b) the oldest pensioners.

So, the headline for this thread was "Higher and Lower rate of State Pension,. This really needs changing." This moves us from facts to opinion.

The state cannot afford the costs to the tax system of unfunded pensions. The only way I can see this being resolved is to move from universal pensions to means-tested ones.

This, however, is most unlikely to affect any current State Pension benefits including the three listed in my previous post.

Personally I’m worse off financially as retired @67 and 3 months- saved a little and paid into 2 tiny pensions- hoping to have more funds in retirement… BUT I would be financially more comfortable- do wish the older Seniors would take note that not having SP @60, some of us are worn out physically and mentally at 66 so we now need more care earlier than my own brother/sister who didn’t need much care till 75+

‘Be more financially comfortable as WITH PENSION CREDIT and all the add ons WHF/ DENTAL BENEFITS/ RENT AND COUNCIL TAX ASSISTANCE etc

I'm not sure what you want Bea65. If you are on the "new" Deferred Years state pension and your income is below the eliabiliy level you can still get Pension Credit. If it isn't I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

PoliticsNerd

I do think that, when dealing with legalities, we really need to understand and be accurate before going in to print. Otherwise we mislead.

Someone suggested that Pension Credit makes the Basic State Pension up to the Deferred Years Pension so it's worth comparing these figures and considering the effect of triple-lock and compounding.

For the year 24/25:

Basic Pension: 169.50
Pension Credi: 218.15
State Defered Years: 221.20

The triple-lock compounds each year - any equal percentage interest will - so each of these get further apart.

The Joseph Rowntree trust suggests a minimum income standard for pensioners of £17,200 or £330.77. The state expects the the individual to make up the difference with personal pensions. The Workplace Pension scheme will help with this but the poorest pensioners are still likely to be a) women and b) the oldest pensioners.

All good points with regards to the pension. The only thing you have omitted is the basic pension is generally supplemented by SERPS and S2P, not many receive only the £169.5, or if they do then they will have a work place pension in addition.

I do think it is important that any information given on the Legal, pensions and money Board is accurate. Anything else is misleading. The state pension is confusing enough without adding misinformation into the mix.

Here is an interesting analysis from the IFS on pensions and means tested benefits.

ifs.org.uk/publications/means-tested-support-people-approaching-and-beyond-state-pension-age?fbclid=IwY2xjawHKI_BleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHXOlbDwbOvGZZFYpQ0Gw5xe_lAPAfZ188ZRWZS-v_rVymK-s3yTiOUwyEQ_aem_VGeBUt3kxtIUavfhOwfFgA

Cabbie21

I do think it is important that any information given on the Legal, pensions and money Board is accurate. Anything else is misleading. The state pension is confusing enough without adding misinformation into the mix.

I couldn't agree more!👍

"The only thing you have omitted is the basic pension is generally supplemented by SERPS and S2P, not many receive only the £169.5, or if they do then they will have a work place pension in addition"

Some people will not get a full state for many different reasons Brahumbug. I was discussing the possible move to a means tested pension in years to come and for that purpose having opted into, or out of SERPS is irrelevant. All sorts of sources may add into a total income which may or may not make a claimant elligable for means tested benefits.

I showed the three payments and pointed out that compounding their growth means they will get further apart over time.

If we are to look at a future means-tested pension - which could be both more affordable and at a higher level than current Pension Credit - Pension Credit may have to retain triple-lock while the two Pension levels move to growth equal to wages/salary growth.