Higher and Lower rate of State Pension,. This really needs changing

Allira

So several posters are ill-informed, blinkered, make no sense etc.
🤔

If so they might appreciate information offered in a kind way.

I have not at any point said blinkered please don't put words in my mouth. Please read the full thread. I made factual statements regarding the new state pension. The exact wording of another poster was that I was factually incorrect, despite the fact that I was spot on. If they had bothered to fact check they would have seen I was right. That is the kind of post I object to, and will continue to object to. If I make an error and someone can demonstrate how I am wrong then I will happily accept the correction.

So several posters are ill-informed, blinkered, make no sense etc.
🤔

If so they might appreciate information offered in a kind way.

Allira

No, you just told dalrymple23 what she said made no sense.
You said some people had blinkered views.

But carry on being blunt as you call it, just don't expect others to read your posts if you are "blunt" ie rude.

Did you not read what I said?
I said it made no sense to ME. Her statement doesn't make sense in terms of the pension legislation and I was hoping she would come back and elaborate so we could offer some concrete advice. My remark regarding ill informed posts refers to earlier in the thread before dalrymple23 joined the conversation.

No, you just told dalrymple23 what she said made no sense.
You said some people had blinkered views.

But carry on being blunt as you call it, just don't expect others to read your posts if you are "blunt" ie rude.

Allira

^It was nice to have a sensible discussion with you as well. Definitely better than some of the ill informed nonsense posted earlier in the thread^!

Not everyone understand the complexities of the ever-changing pension system so there is really no need for rudeness.

There is every need when I have explained the facts accurately, only to be told I am factually incorrect. Bluntness is the only way to get through to some people.

It was nice to have a sensible discussion with you as well. Definitely better than some of the ill informed nonsense posted earlier in the thread!

Not everyone understand the complexities of the ever-changing pension system so there is really no need for rudeness.

dalrymple23

I am totally banjaxed by this pension scenario. I was a full time housewife and mother. My former husband swore blind that he was paying the married woman's stamp. He stopped this but told me that he was paying into a private pension for us both. I trusted him - as you do. Silly me!!!

Only in the divorce court was it that I discovered that a minimal amount had been paid into the State facility and that I was not entitled to any of the private pension (the law has since changed, I think).

I am now snookered. State pension is £192. That is it. Don't forget that I did not start to work until I was in my mid forties. It was not expected and I did not have to. Okay, I was lucky. But I cannot believe that I am the only person in this situation. I cannot change the past but it does not help the present.

There is not nor ever has been a "married couples pension". It is a term coined by the media as a quick way to describe the income for a pensioner couple.
It usually refers to a couple where the man gets a full pension, but the wife (usually because of child rearing or being on the married womens NI stamp) claims a reduced "married womans pension" based on her husbands NI. moneysavingexpert
That could be up to 60% if the wife did not work.

I was a full time housewife and mother
Home Responsibilities Protection began in April 1978 (ended in 2010) if you were in receipt of Child Benefit. That meant your NI stamp was credited.

If you went back to work in your 40s you would have paid the full NI stamp not the Married Woman's stamp as it had been abolished.

If your State Pension is £192 per that means you have below the required amount of contributions for a full new State Pension. You can log into the Government Gateway site to check your contributions.

It is still quite a lot more than those on the old State Pension.

If you are under the amount for Pension Credit, you need to investigate if you are entitled to any additional benefits.

PoliticsNerd

We do too for Pension Credit but I could see this helping get over the low "bump" of PC.

I think SP has been a useful top-up or even the only source of income and the poorest, personal pension wise are very likely to be the oldest and women.

I agree about having your own pension (where possible). Could the Workplace Pension be improved I wonder?

Thank you for such a useful discussion Brahumbug.

It was nice to have a sensible discussion with you as well. Definitely better than some of the ill informed nonsense posted earlier in the thread!

The husband paying married women's stamp makes no sense to me either!

dalrymple23 It would be helpful if you came back to discuss what you posted as a few things don't add up.

Firstly, why would your husband pay the married women's stamp? That would be something you would do when you were working. However, by the time you were in your 40s it didn't exist so you would have paid your own NI and gained NI years then. You may also have been credited for some child care years if that was why you were not working. There are other reasons for credits too. That is worth checking.

In addition, when you claim, the government do take your divorced status into account and you get extra for that based on your husbands contributions. Your ex-husband would not be in involved with this. That may have happened but it's worth checking.

If £192 is your only income you may be able to get Pension Credit but you do have to claim it. If you have claimed and been turned down ask why. The DWP are very helpful and will explain why.

dalrymple23

I am totally banjaxed by this pension scenario. I was a full time housewife and mother. My former husband swore blind that he was paying the married woman's stamp. He stopped this but told me that he was paying into a private pension for us both. I trusted him - as you do. Silly me!!!

Only in the divorce court was it that I discovered that a minimal amount had been paid into the State facility and that I was not entitled to any of the private pension (the law has since changed, I think).

I am now snookered. State pension is £192. That is it. Don't forget that I did not start to work until I was in my mid forties. It was not expected and I did not have to. Okay, I was lucky. But I cannot believe that I am the only person in this situation. I cannot change the past but it does not help the present.

Are you drawing the pension or is that the predicted amount?

I'm afraid that's a problem only courts can sort out dalrymple23 not an issue with the pension system.

I am totally banjaxed by this pension scenario. I was a full time housewife and mother. My former husband swore blind that he was paying the married woman's stamp. He stopped this but told me that he was paying into a private pension for us both. I trusted him - as you do. Silly me!!!

Only in the divorce court was it that I discovered that a minimal amount had been paid into the State facility and that I was not entitled to any of the private pension (the law has since changed, I think).

I am now snookered. State pension is £192. That is it. Don't forget that I did not start to work until I was in my mid forties. It was not expected and I did not have to. Okay, I was lucky. But I cannot believe that I am the only person in this situation. I cannot change the past but it does not help the present.

We do too for Pension Credit but I could see this helping get over the low "bump" of PC.

I think SP has been a useful top-up or even the only source of income and the poorest, personal pension wise are very likely to be the oldest and women.

I agree about having your own pension (where possible). Could the Workplace Pension be improved I wonder?

Thank you for such a useful discussion Brahumbug.

They also take into account asset values for the means tested pension. One thing that this shows is the importance of not relying solely on the state pension, it is a useful starting point but a workplace or private pension is needed as well.

Apologies. I thought the income test figure for age pension in Australia looked odd. It's actually says:

"Once income exceeds $212 a fortnight, the pension reduces by $0.50 for every additional dollar earned. From 20 September 2024, a pensioner couple can earn $372 a fortnight combined and still be eligible for the full pension of $1725.20 a fortnight, including all supplements."

So it is reduced or ceased depending on your existing income.

I was just looking at Australia where they have a means tested pension. I've always felt that our governments are attracted to this and that this was why the "Workplace Pension" was brought in.

It seems that the base eligability figure for an Australian State Pension is £627.07 a week. In the UK the base eligability figure for Pension Credit is £218.15 per week. Of course, the Australian Government is not providing a state pension to anyone above this figure except, possibly, legacy benefits if there are any.

In order to bring down the numbers able/needing to claim they have "Superannuation". Although our workplace pension is thought to have mimicked superannuation, the employer pays a lot less in the UK. But then, I dont think Australian employers pay anything comparable to NI.

Triple lock will continue to raise the Pension Credit faster than the Basic SP because of the compounding on an already larger amount - a good thing in my opinion as more of the poorest Pensioners will get extra help each year. However, around 55% of social security expenditure currently goes to pensioners and that figure looks like growing - paid for by a dwindling younger generation. So, I am pretty sure governments will look at this.

NB: Please fact check and check the figures if you are able to.

PoliticsNerd

You're right Brahumbug. I must have been thinking of those who contracted out - or just not thinking!

SERPS was always a strange way of trying to get people to save more for a pension. The workplace pension is better but still underfunded.

Absolutely right. You often hear people saying that the UK state pension is amongst the lowest in Europe, but they forget about the earnings related part. Some European pensions are higher, but they pay a huge amount of tax towards them. Given how much we pay in NI, ours is quite generous.

You're right Brahumbug. I must have been thinking of those who contracted out - or just not thinking!

SERPS was always a strange way of trying to get people to save more for a pension. The workplace pension is better but still underfunded.

Posted to soon!
Just like the basic state pension, there was no 'pot' for SERPS and S2P.

PoliticsNerd

It wasn't the same as the state pension Brahumbug. Pay as you go referred, re SP, to one generation paying for the previous generation. Serps was you investing in you own pension.

Sorry you are mistaken. SERPS was a state run scheme, running in parallel with the basic state pension, and unlike the basic pension was based on your earnings. The generosity of this was gradually reduced until it was replaced by the 2nd state pension, (S2P). You are confusing it with being contracted out of SERPS and S2P, when you paid less national insurance and instead invested into your own or workplace pension, either DB or DC .

It wasn't the same as the state pension Brahumbug. Pay as you go referred, re SP, to one generation paying for the previous generation. Serps was you investing in you own pension.

The trouble with SERPS was that it was a pay as you go scheme, the same as the state pension, the national insurance fund not being individual pots of money! Countries such as Germany are now struggling to pay their pensions as they are pay as you go schemes as well. The much higher pension contributions barely covering the existing pensioners with revenues set to decline.

Charleygirl5

My state pension is £983.32, 40 years with Serps.

SERPS, while paid along side the state insurance based retirement age benefit, is not part of it. It was an attempt (a clumsy one) to encourage workers to have a pension pot rather than just the state insurance. We now have the Workplace Pension.

No, I agree, it is very, very unlikely to affect existing pensions. They would have to give notice of coming changes as they always do with changes to benefits. The "current" pension would then become a "legacy" benefit and dwindle naturally.

I agree that they might well move from triple-lock to average earnings but they would need to ensure that Pension Credit is set at a level that reaches a minimum income standard for pensioners - complex as Pension Credit is made up of a direct payment and other benefits. I don't envy them.